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Review: NCISLA “A Tale of Two Igors” (S12E18)


With “A Tale of Two Igors,” NCIS: Los Angeles closed the books on Season 12. How time flies! The season finale script, written by Kyle Harimoto and showrunner R. Scott Gemmill, was likely completed before the show received its renewal notice, and its air of possible finality provided a bittersweet quality even as the laugh out loud jokes flew fast and furiously.

The Funny

One of the episode’s strengths was its light tone, chosen by the showrunners to “do a fun, feel-good episode that leaves everyone happy and hopeful for what is coming down the line.” A major character was kidnapped, yet we never feared that he or anyone else was truly in danger. This carefree approach was very much in keeping with R. Scott Gemmill’s work, particularly over the last few seasons, as he embraced a wackier version of Beale and wrote (or co-wrote) a number of episodes that more closely resembled a single-camera comedy than they did a weekly procedural. For examples, see “Kill Beale Vol. 1,” “Till Death Do Us Part,” “Hail Mary,” “Love Kills,” and “Russia, Russia, Russia.”

The bulk of the humor was driven by Admiral Kilbride’s curmudgeonliness (nope I don’t think that’s a word either) and by Deeks’ newly inherited Russian crime syndicate. Kilbride had my second favorite line of the night in that hilarious scene where Nell got caught shaving off Beale’s stache: “Please don’t. You’ll only make it more disturbing.”

While I’d pay money for an angsty Deeks kidnapping storyline, it was hard to argue with the hilarity that ensued when Kirkin’s former staff nabbed him in search of a new trustworthy leader. Before the credits had even rolled, the jaunty background music told us that we shouldn’t worry about his fate, and the tone let us know that Gemmill had contributed to the writing.

Kirkin’s gang would have made him proud, taking care of Deeks’ nutritional needs and succeeding (mostly anyway) in freeing the Russian military dolphins. What a ridiculous storyline that I fully embraced right down to the final shot of the dolphins enjoying their newfound freedom. It served as a wonderful final(?) tribute to a beloved character. (It would be great to see more Kirkin-generated “gifts” in future episodes- the possibilities are endless.)

The bad guys were also quite amusing. I’d like to think that Igor 1 got his job because of his blond locks (or else it was a job requirement for him to dye his hair). The way all the guest actors, but particularly Igor 1’s Sandi Todorovic, delivered their lines with total seriousness and sincerity made them all the funnier. Henry crying over the dolphins, and then admitting to accidently shooting one, was a great touch too.

Eric Christian Olsen held up his end of this fun storyline. He perfectly delivered Deeks’ exasperation with being kidnapped. We didn’t even need to see his face under that hood to know his exact expression when he uttered a frustrated “Kirkin!” at the drive through. Deeks’ ability to do his job while embracing the craziness (telling a caller “Dasvidaniya”, for example) added to the fun. My favorite exchange of the entire episode was his quick delivery of “No one is over this Russian thing more than I am, no offense to you Grisha,” followed by Callen’s immediate “No offense Martin.” I hope that put a smile on every viewer’s face like it did on mine.

The Sweet

While I’m not sure if it was really him surfing (why can’t we get a clear shot of ECO in action on the waves?), Surfer Deeks will always be my favorite Deeks. This storyline also gave us a few seconds of Worried Kensi; seeing her protectiveness towards her husband is always welcome. We also got a relaxed and happy Densi at the end. Hearing Kensi joke and laugh out loud lets us go off to hiatus knowing they’re in as good a place as they can be. Plus, how adorable is it that she thinks of Deeks as her “little mermaid”? (I believe the term is merman, Kensi.)

The Grumpy (and Gruff and Crusty)

The episode was filled with grumpy characters. Ironically all the “crustiness” contributed to some of the funny one-liners, most courtesy of Kilbride as usual. Still, it was a lot of grumpiness to deal with. Kilbride’s gruffness had a harder edge than usual, with his ultimatum to Nell and his attitude toward Callen adding a nastier than usual tone to their conversations.

Kilbride’s telling Callen that Hetty “created” him brought up echoes from “Mother,” with its story of Hetty’s attempts to “help” orphans by molding them into agents and spies. Was this a clue that Kilbride knows something about Callen’s history with Hetty? Is that what Callen was searching for amidst the paper files? The whole conversation came out of the blue but might lead to some interesting places next season (spoiler alert: perhaps it will lead to learning more about Callen’s childhood, as Gemmill mentioned in a TVLine article).

Also in the Mr. Grumpypants category was Sam, who barely listened to anything Rountree had to offer on the case because of his preoccupation with Aiden’s flight test. At least Callen was able to pry his worries out of him and then offer appropriate support.

And then there was Fatima. Lashing out at others because you’re upset is not an attractive quality (see Kensi and Sam at various times, including the previous paragraph). Here, Fatima was giving off more attitude than a teenager. Kensi had the perfect reaction, a combination of hurt and anger, when she tried to get Fatima to open up and Fatima attacked her. I hope she can develop more maturity over time to enable her to handle her feelings better.

The Bittersweet

When Fatima did finally share the reason behind her poor attitude, it at least gave us an understanding of why she’d been so unpleasant all day. More important, it provided us with a key element of her backstory, the reason she changed from acting to fighting for the good guys. I can admire her for that change, although it doesn’t yet make me want to spend more time with her. (And no, I’m not bitter that we now know why a first-year team member made a career change when we still don’t know why Deeks shifted from attorney to cop. It’s all good.)

The lead duo of Callen and Sam got some nice scenes together, with Callen getting his partner to open up about his worries, with them reminiscing over the last trying year, and finally with Sam letting Callen know that he’d be a great dad. Chris O’Donnell beautifully played out the subtle emotions Callen experienced on hearing that compliment. And is that another breadcrumb about possible directions for this character to take next season? I can only hope that Densi has a child first to spare them the additional angst of watching their friends become parents before they do.

The episode’s big news, and the source of much of its emotion, was the apparently official departure of both Renée Felice Smith and Barrett Foa. Having Beale return provided a lovely way to usher Nell away, with a promise of new challenges and perhaps a rekindling of their romantic relationship. Their scenes here provided a reminder of how well they worked together, and how integral they’ve been to the cast. The two got a literal happy ending, riding off into the sunset, singing along to the music as they sped up the coast in a crazy expensive Lamborghini.

Yet even though we know Nell was never happy with her new job as Acting Operations Manager, her decision to depart NCIS and her subsequent good-bye scenes held multiple layers because we knew they were also our good-byes to the actress, and by extension, to Barrett. Seeing Kensi say farewell to the one person besides Deeks that she’s been able to open up to was a definite bittersweet scene, and knowing how emotional it must have been for Daniela Ruah and Renée made it doubly so. I only wished we’d have had time to let Nell and Deeks have a similar moment, but instead we got to enjoy a couple final doses of Beale-Deeks silliness. In lieu of a Shaggy-Velma scene, be sure to check out ECO’s description posted on twitter of working with her on that amazing scene from “Raising the Dead” where Deeks is fired.

The big reveal of the night, at least to viewers who hadn’t seen any spoilers, was Linda Hunt’s return. Just like with the fictional Densi wedding, I’d have to assume that Linda was determined to make an appearance to be part of a big milestone for the show, in this case Renée and Barrett’s real-life departures. Her scenes with Nell carried so much emotion for the characters, who’ve had a rocky but close relationship for so many years, but we know they must have involved even more emotion for Renée and Linda. What an incredible experience for Renée to have worked so closely with such a legend. It was also a reminder to viewers of how lucky we’ve been to enjoy both their work for so long.

Memorable Moments

  • How disorienting to see ECO apparently supplying Deeks’ wardrobe with what looked like his own Faherty sweatshirt.
  • Surfer Deeks and the whole gang filmed at my little neighborhood beach in San Pedro. Too bad I’ve been away or I would definitely have stalked them walked over to play paparazzo.
  • Nelverine, Nellosaurus, Martin Atticus Deeks, Martin and Grisha, Eric’s Ununoctium, the WonderTwins. Harimoto and Gemmill were definitely out to set a record for nicknames. It added another delightful layer to the episode, as each one carried the history of its origin and felt particularly intended for us long-time fans.
  • Sam: no texting while driving! You need to set a better example.
  • I so wanted Beale to finally acknowledge that he owes Deeks a share of his business. Even a miniscule fraction of a percent of equity would be worth a fortune and would be incredibly helpful to our struggling couple. A missed opportunity to save the bar. I mean, the guy is driving a car with a base price of $393,000!

Things to Come

That’s a wrap for Season 12. Let’s take a moment to celebrate that we will be gifted with a Season 13, and then we can dive into conjecture about what it will bring. Will Linda Hunt come back full time now that COVID seems to be coming under control? Will she at least appear more regularly? Is Kilbride her new foil, taking the place that Granger held for so long? He was issuing orders to change out the fancy frosted windows in Mosley’s old office, so it sounds like he’s planning to be there more often. And she was making sure her antique weapons were returned to their proper storage, so it looked promising. (See this TVLine interview with Gemmill for more about the finale and next season.)

What will Nell and Eric’s official departures mean to the team dynamic? A natural shift would be to move Fatima to Ops, which I’d welcome, but it would leave Rountree without a partner. Giving him and Fatima that nice scene in this episode really made it feel like they’re intended to continue as partners, so perhaps we’ll have a fresh face in Ops instead. Either way, we’ll have one less character overall which moves us closer to our old dynamic of a core four plus Ops and management. (I do think they should give Rountree- and if she continues in the field, Fatima- desks in the bullpen.) I also hope to learn more about what drives Rountree. He’s a good guy and I want to know him better.

And who knows? Since neither Nell nor Eric were killed off, we may very well see them again in the future, perhaps for episode #300. I will also continue to remain optimistic, like Charlie Brown with Lucy and the football, that we’ll finally get a “Deeks, M.” to learn more about our favorite character’s backstory. (It will only have been about six years since Shane Brennan promised us a “Deeks, M.” episode for Season 8.) Who knows, maybe that’s the episode ECO is writing (a girl can dream). (Of course, the only backstory Gemmill mentioned was about Callen’s childhood. Sigh.)

This episode overall felt like a dry run for an eventual series finale. Learning how it would feel to say good-bye to characters we’ve loved for such a long time can only help us prepare for that eventual good-bye to the show. But since that’s not going to happen for another decade or so, let’s not worry about it quite yet. Instead, let’s congratulate them on completing Season 12 under incredibly difficult circumstances.

Thank you so much for all your support and great comments all season long. I’m sorry I had limited time this year so couldn’t participate in your fantastic discussions, but I always enjoyed hearing your thoughts. Keep them coming one last time in the Comments below. Did you enjoy this light-hearted episode? How did you feel about the big returns and departures? How do you feel about Season 12, and what do you hope for in Season 13? Also be sure to come back later this week for one last entry from Deeks’ Surf Log and Kensi’s Journal. I can’t wait to see you back here in the fall. Have a happy and safe summer!

About Karen P (242 Articles)
wikiDeeks Writer & Assistant Editor. I never wrote for fun before... until my ECO-obsession. Now I love to analyze any and all aspects of the best character on television.

147 Comments on Review: NCISLA “A Tale of Two Igors” (S12E18)

  1. Thank you for another Season of this website!

    Loved the humor. Deeks was definitely the MVP with the quotes.

    Seeing Hetty was the best thing ever. I’m really glad Netty (Nell and Hetty’s names mashed together) didn’t leave on any bad terms cuz I’ve adored their cutsey mother/daughter like relationship for a few years now. My only disappointment was that we didn’t get to see Hetty and KIlbride’s ‘chat’. (I’ve really missed sassy Hetty. Too much to hope for that to be a deleted scene on the DVD?).

    I’m not really too sad to see Neric leave. Nell really got on my nerves this Season, and I basically wanted her to leave with Eric before this episode even aired. Plus, I never stopped shipping them, so I can say for now that my ship got together in the end.

    Probably gonna be an unpopular opinion, but if Hetty needs another partner, can’t it be somebody who actually LIKES her and her team?! That may have worked once, but it’s just not possible for it to work again.

    Anyways, as long as no one gets sick, or dies, or gets into freak accidents just days before filming is about to start (and causes the whole Season to turn into a withdrawal fueled nightmare), and the writing actually gets better, next Season might actually be bareable.

    Enjoy the summer!

    Liked by 2 people

    • Wishlist so far for next Season:
      Answers answers answers to what Hetty has been doing, to see more of Hetty, including her badass, sassy, loving mama bear sides.

      Much, much better writing

      To actually enjoy more then 1 episode at a time instead of just wanting to get through it once so I don’t have to see it again.

      Better filler episodes, like WAY better.

      For the whole ‘trying to replace Hetty’ junk to be dropped. It never happens, and it’s the most annoying thing ever because we all know she’s never going to actually leave for good.

      More Hetty/Callen scenes, I miss them so much.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Thank you Karen, as always wonderful review. Love seeing kensi and deeks, hugging, laughing haven’t seen that to much this year. Fun to watch. Loved seeing deeks in a sleeveless wetsuit 💪enjoyed the lightness of the show, and your right, if season 13 hadn’t been picked up. It would have been a nice ending. Loved seeing Hetty , she has been missed. Barrett and Renee , you will be missed, wonder twins of opts. I can’t see anyone replacing you. ❤️Good Luck in all you do. I also enjoyed Sam, Callen and Kilbride, enjoyable episode.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. For personal reasons, I needed a feel good episode like this. Karen, your review covered everything perfectly. Lots of favorite scenes here with future storylines and fan fiction. My favorite was Deeks and Igor in the drive through. Whichever writer brought that to table should get a gold star. Fantastic. And only Kirkin would use such beautiful fabric for a hood. Watching Deeks flex his muscles while handcuffed wasn’t bad either. It felt like a series send off episode. Everyone paired off. A friendship developing between Roundtree and Fatima. Eric and Nell driving off into the sunset for new adventures and unlimited wealth. Callen and Sam, friends and partners just like they always have been. Hetty whipping a grumpy Admiral Kilbride back into line. And finally a scene with Deeks and Kensi laughing and bantering so reminiscent of the early days of their “Thing”. Although I’m thrilled there will be another season, if this had been the series finale, I would be good with that.

    Thanks Karen and Diane for the great reviews this season and for shepherding wikiDeeks through a tough year. Thanks to Colleen for sharing her graphic skills. A special thanks to the fan fiction writers too, and those who give us Kensi’s and Deeks’ view of things after each episode. And to all who love this site, thank you for sharing your thoughts about our favorite character Martin Atticus Deeks.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. OhBuddy66 // May 25, 2021 at 3:08 PM // Reply

    Thanks for the great review! For me, it was one of the more enjoyable episodes of the season. Definitely echoes of past, early seasons – and I agree, it seems as if this would have served quite well as the series finale had they not been picked up for 13.

    As much as I’d like Kilbride to stay around, I wouldn’t be upset if we saw Ochoa – or even Rogers – return as a regular. It sure seems as if Hetty will be back, and I’d love to see more interactions between her and any of the three aforementioned. While I’m sad to see Nell and Eric go, they had almost become caricatures of themselves, if that makes sense. Just my opinion, of course. Fatima and Rountree…both have potential, but they still don’t seem to quite fit just yet. Makes me wonder if they weren’t brought on board to eventually replace Deeks and Kensi if/when they get pregnant, or just decide to hang it up? I can’t see them being meant to take over for Eric and Nell.

    Thanks again, wikiDeeks crew, for giving us another year. Looking forward to next season!

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Nutterbutter // May 25, 2021 at 3:31 PM // Reply

    Oh Karen, thank you very much for this excellent review. I think it was a good one It was a good solid team episode with action, banter, humor, and solid acting by our team.
    It was a great way to end a very difficult season and it had a lot of very funny lines which had been missing this season, I lived the Admiral’s lines and the best was the old Deeks was back. but I can’t believe they would end the show with this episode with many open stories, without tying some loose ends if they didn’t get renewed. I felt like it was the last episode. The way they were recapping the year it just felt like the show was over for good.

    I loved the part where Deeks threw that Russian into the pool and made him think it was a shark pool. And the kidnapper’s scene was like a reminder of “Bates” in season 9 “Does anyone need detective Deeks?”.Loved seeing Kensi smile for a change and seeing them on the beach. It was lovely to see these two relaxing on the beach like a normal couple.
    I love that he called Callen by his first name, and G didn’t hesitate or question it, Only Deeks can pull that scene off. (Hilarious)

    For me, it was another missed opportunity to explore the background story of Deeks.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I didn’t like the ep, on the contrary, I enjoyed it was fun and light and we missed that side of the show and sign me in for an episode that ECO has more screentime on the show, I was extremely impressed that my favorite actor was on last night! I love seeing Deeks a lot more on the set of the show.HE is my favorite actor on the show all I’m saying that could use it better and made light and fun as you wanted but also make it more revolving and concentrated on Deeks than this dolphin plot. And I know the show doesn’t revolve around Deeks only and it’s not a fanfiction story it’s a TV show, but come on when you put the effort to write a centric ep about our favorite character at least give us the devoted fans something worthwhile and meaningful.

    I’ll miss Eric so much he doesn’t deserve to be sent off without an appropriate story about his background it was Very disappointing and dissatisfying the way Eric left. But I’m happy for “Barrett Foa” if he decides to make the depart to carry on with his own life and his other projects. I wish him all luck. His departure is raising another fear that the writer could send off any character or end the show without knowing their background, but that will be such a mess and turmoil and waste of time for all the Deeks fans if they decide to do such a thing with him. Finger crossed they would give us what we want when they hit the next milestone with the (300 Episodes). I don’t want ECO to leave the show. Yet, if he is then I would like him to go out with a bang, with a truly great, dramatic storyline. And Does this mean they starting to wrap the show up, and the next season could be the Finale? It felt more like a series finale. But even if they did think they may not be back they could have ended it with a bang thank god they get another season.

    I don’t about Nell but for two seasons now they insinuated that she will leave, but she comes back so I hope that she will give ERIC the 6 weeks and decided to come back to OPS. I only didn’t want her to take Hetty’s job but don’t send her off the show (I’m still in denial phase to the departure of NERIC).

    SAM and Callen were good last night. Looks like Sam is going to everyone and tells him he would be great DAD. Callen snooping around and looking for some DOC’s was very mysterious. Does it mean it’s related to his family ties or he has a secret child somewhere? But to be honest I Fed-up with Callen’s backstory I think they covered all angles of his character. I’m sorry but am I the only one who thinks this Russian storyline was way too long?
    I don’t understand why the writers don’t jump at the chance to explore new topics- they seem way more interesting to me than the endless Russian ties and Callen’s background and the Baby talks. Perhaps the showrunners are too single-mindedly focused on communicating one aspect of the characters.

    I wish Fatima would leave. She was pretty snippy last night, she is always complaining about the job, and she seems very unhappy. I just can’t warm up to this character. After that story from Fatima about her friend–which I didn’t care anything about please forgive me, but I’m not interested in the new characters’ backstory at all, at least not before getting the long-awaited Deeks’ backstory “Deeks, M.”.
    On a side note, there was an article where I read that Hidoko might come back maybe to replace Eric. I loved Hidoko and actually, she is more likable for me and bearable than Fatima and Roundtree.
    Although we’re living in such difficult times the whole cast was able to bring this season to life so I count ourselves lucky to have this season. Look forward to seeing the new season back later in the year.

    And for Wikideeks You have been amazing in a worldwide pandemic you have given us time away from it. A time and a place to discuss, share and vent our opinions about our favorite show and character. I love the reviews, the discussions, the fanfics, the interviews, everything. Thank you for your existence.

    Like

  6. An episode I am definitely looking forward to watching. Your review and all the clips have whetted my appetite. I don’t know why I was surprised at Nell and Eric’s departure. After all Nell tried to leave last season. I did write earlier that life changing decisions were the easiest to make. It was obvious Nell didn’t want the job, but didn’t want to say no either. She didn’t hesitate to go off with Beale, that’s what I meant. I’m sad to see Beale go, I liked him. Oddly I do feel happy for him. Finally he’s found an outfit that appreciates him. NCIS never did, never gave him any respect. Yes I know he left NCIS before the season started. Like Nutterbutter I think it’s a shame we didn’t get any of Beale’s backstory, nor Nell’s come to that. I would like to think they will be recurring characters.

    As to next season, I am always hopeful. I am unashamedly biased in favour of Deeks, I don’t think I’m alone. I think it is past time that we had another episode where Deeks takes centre stage. Nutterbutter’s third paragraph says it all so I’ll leave it there. It would be nice to see Deeks getting support from the team and angst from the bad guys, not the other way round. Now Kirkin’s gone, who’s going to be on his side? They had him battling NCIS and LAPD, I’d rather see him up against the bad guys.

    I did hear ECO say he would be happy for Densi to explore adoption and the logistics that goes with it. Sounds good to me. No idea what adoption entails, but I know it isn’t easy. My imagination has them adopting a child with a disability or special needs, a child that finds them. Perhaps that might be a bit saccharine, but I do think Kensi and Deeks would make a formidable team fighting bureaucracy.

    Happy to see Hetty is likely to be back next year, she does bring something to the show. I would like to see her with a ‘Granger replacement’, like OhBuddy66 I would be happy to see Kilbride, Ochoa or Rogers, or my personal favourite Chegwidden. Any of them would do, but they do need somebody of that ilk.

    I read the showrunner wanted to explore more of Callen’s backstory. Better to leave it a while, maybe a decade. We have had so much already and it’s been contradictory. Who would guess I’m not Callen’s biggest fan?

    If they are looking for somebody to take over Ops, I think Dave Flynn from Red Team would be a good fit, he has done it already. That’s assuming Scott Grimes is available.

    I do feel a bit churlish complaining about anything given the difficulties of filming under the Covid restrictions, I am grateful they gave us the episodes they did, eagerly waiting to buy the DVDs. Have to say though, much as I enjoy NCIS:LA and I will really miss it when it eventually ends, I will miss your reviews even more. They are the best. I enjoy the whole package of wikiDeeks. Thank you everybody at wikiDeeks for all your hard work.

    Like

  7. Nutterbutter // May 26, 2021 at 3:38 PM // Reply

    I know I’d sound odious and ungrateful, and I hope I don’t come across as too negative and critical too, but honestly, I love the show so much that I wish that it never ends.
    I really appreciate the whole staff and crew for risking their lives & safety just to give us something to entertain us with all the bloom and darkness in the world,
    It was a good season not great. They pulled it off in spite of Covid19, and ECO’s parental leave, and some of the cast being occupied with other projects. Little bumps here and there but with limited people, they still worked hard around it.
    But this season wasn’t one of my favorites. I think ECO’s absences have really taken a toll on my enjoyment of the season. and I really really respect that so much about him and how he is prioritizing his family first but I need them to write more for him because he’s a great actor and he does so much with the material! It adds a different dimension to the show. well, yeah! I’m that shallow I only watch for him and Deeks character. So Sue me. I think we also as a fandom seek our favorite TV shows and favorite characters to escape our reality and all the hard time we live in so at least they need to give us something we care about or help us pass this time
    The writing has changed and doesn’t do justice to all the characters and Deeks’s lines are not as good as in previous seasons, the storylines are weak and the writing is not as witty as the previous seasons. But to be Fare there were some hits and misses so I’ll name but a few:

    Things that went well or was good this season

    The long-time awaited event of Deeks being an agent despite it was a satisfying development, and he should sign the papers since he felt he belongs with them “The Debt”. but does that mean that there will not be more LABD undercover operations, no more MAX Gentry, Bates or Whiting, and Boyle’s murder story will be closed??

    DR directing debut. I was very happy & thrilled when I Knew that she’ll be in the director seat. It was a very good episode and I was proud of her and her work and how she handled herself during quarantine and how she could multi-tasking. It was a well-written, directed, and acted ep. It was a good solid episode with action, banter, humor, and solid acting by our team.

    Kirkin is back which was hilarious however it was short-lived after being killed saving our beloved character. it was a nice scene to pay homage to Kirkin by having Deeks take over his criminal empire.

    Deeks being undercover as a lawyer it was good to remind us of his degree and how competent, well educated, and can hold himself in any situation. Sam’s telling Deeks how he would be a great dad.

    Loved when Deeks suggested to Kensi that she could benefit from a therapist. He couldn’t take her looking like that, so fragile and broken. It was always a weapon against him. All someone had to do was take Kensi, hurt her in any way, and then they would have him doing everything to make it stop.
    I love how sensitive Deeks can be. Not only funny but surprisingly insightful when needed. He has been amazingly supportive throughout the efforts to start a family and showed more than once. His ability to give Kensi what she needs whether supporting her decision to adopt or selling the bar to buy their dream house and the protective side of Deeks that showed while dealing with their worries with Kessler still out on the run and wanting to make an end to that.

    Things that didn’t sit well with me this season & what I’m looking for next season

    The repetitive storylines the writers usually use now and then (Sam’s family in dangerous situations, Callen’s love triangle that got boring and stretched, Callen’s backstory and his endless ties with the Russians and his lone wolf attitude, Kensi’s life being in danger for no reasonable cause, Densi’s talk about fertility issues and having a baby and quitting the job is like a throwback to their wedding talk My main objection is to the lack of any other topic for conversation, Hetty being away from OPS with no clear reason )

    The FLETC Training and his struggle to complete it and showing Deeks as an incompetent, misfit, not good enough to do the job just to make him the butt of the joke was wrongly handled. I’m tired of always treating Deeks as the bottom of their jokes and showing that he not good enough for the team. He has proven himself more than loyal and worthy to either NCIS or LABD. He is a good friend, an outstanding operator, and had everyone’s back.

    Deeks being treated as a punching bag for Kensi’s tantrum, and her temper and the disrespected and ungraciousness way the whole team treated him and the lack of support he endured from Kensi & the team when he was emotionally and mentally unstable for being fired and his wife’s life is at risk. Deeks can take criticism, and he’s not the one to feel hurt over a joke. As much as he loves the team and supported them in every way… They still didn’t get off their high horses yet when it comes to deal with him and his problems.
    Deeks is a valid and important member of the team and he’d more than earned his place amongst the

    The Kessler storyline appeared out of nowhere just for the sake of the drama as he was never mentioned before (It’s like Sullivan’s storyline all over again). Even so, they could give us something about Kensi’s background that we care about instead. How about the period she lived in the street or being agent afloat, and if they insisting to bring nemesis they could bring someone from Deeks background at least we know from “personal” that there are at least 3 people that would hate him till the day he day, and what about his ex-girlfriend that he had a restraining order against her, or Steadman Boyle’s partner would seek revenge (That would be more interesting).
    I hope they end this plot next season by taking him down as a team. And If they have Kensi taken, or tortured, or hurt her in any way by Kessler and a total repeat of “Payback,” I’m going to be really really disappointed (She always gets hurt/maimed as an end result).

    Katya having beef with Callen and Anna also out of a sudden, they make it like Callen & his father manage to irritate and piss off every person in Russia, and this plot took most of the season and still not ended. WHY? They stretched it way too long. (I’ve to concur with both Patricia Abbott maybe we could leave his backstory for a decade ) If they want to bring some villains How about Janvier (Chameleon) wasn’t be sending Christmas cards to Callen why don’t bring him back he was an interested villain or Angelo the guy from “three hearts” he was holding a grudge against Hetty and the team, or the rest members of the pattern project.

    Speaking of Deeks backstory ya right there is no one because the only thing we know about him this whole season was what the ( A ) in his name is standing for. OMG, are you kidding me after 12 years of waiting for his story that’s the only thing to be revealed? I don’t know what we need to do to get the long-promised Deeks’ backstory “Deeks, M.” and it should be multiple episodes, not just one to cover all the gaps we’ve been seeking for without any OOC behavior. Oh come on it’s been 12 years guys and every time they wrap up a season I hold my breath for the renewal and if all the whole cast will come back, they need to write this episode before they end the show or ECO (god forbidden) lose interest and leave the show. Also, I’d love to Deeks in life and death situation where Kensi will choose to save him instead of following the rules and the team has her back and doesn’t break sweat till they save him and to express how he is appreciated and acknowledge his value. ( I hear you, Patricia Abbott)

    Although it is just my opinion. Whatever they were trying to get out of the Anna, Joelle, Fatima, and Roundtree characters, they missed the mark. In an apparent effort to get us to bond with them, they have given them too much airtime and made them too much a focus of the show.

    There’s no continuity it’s as if they have forgotten what happened in earlier seasons, especially with Deeks. I missed the banter among the team, and the whole opening scene in the bullpen, I missed Kensi’s crazy laugh and Deeks’s jokes Bring Deeks back. His personality with the other team members makes the show. This season they’ve been dealing with some pretty intense stuff. I do miss the banter between the cast that we saw in older episodes without eliminating the competent factor and make him the bottom of their jokes.

    I’ve to join both Patricia Abbott & OhBuddy66 wishes about bringing Kilbride, Ochoa, Rogers, or Chegwidden with Hetty as a ‘Granger replacement. They’ve chemistry with almost everyone.

    I know it’s a long post to sum all the season up, but maybe I’m hoping that the writers will make it better with our comments? Maybe this is the road the writers want to go on, However, I think that most of us want to watch it and hope that it gets back on track to the original version or somewhat close to that. That is my opinion. And as long as we have Deeks I will always keep watching and hoping for better times. Thank you for bearing with me.
    Jessie, K

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    • Oh Jessie, K, there is a lot to take in. No you’re not being negative, it’s constructive criticism. I think TPTB would rather you poured your feelings out here than stop watching. Maybe they will take notice. I can’t agree or disagree with your overview of the season, I haven’t watched it yet. I have seen clips, read the reviews and been sucked into discussions afterwards. Like you I hope it doesn’t end, it is a distraction through difficult times. How often do you have a bad day, then see Deeks have a worse one?

      There are a lot of people with different ideas and opinions out there and they are all right. Some people really like Fatima, some can’t stand Deeks. Some people don’t drink whisky, I don’t get that either. What I’m trying to say is that they can’t please everybody. They could please us more.

      I think we’ve already established that we think along the same lines and I can’t disagree with any of your comments. Like you I only really watch the show for Deeks, he is such an intriguing character. As you say he brings a different dimension to the show. A character they could make so much more use of. I wouldn’t want to see him beaten, blown up or kidnapped every episode, but I would like to see him take centre stage more often. I particularly agree with you ‘Deeks M’ should be multiple episodes, and I’d like to see Kensi choose Deeks over the job.

      I think it’s fair to say you’ve read my mind. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to write it all down.

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      • NutterButter // May 27, 2021 at 3:47 PM // Reply

        Thank you for taking the time to read the post, I am thankful for your timely feedback I appreciate your swift words and opinion.
        I also don’t get the people who don’t drink whisky, LOL. I agree with you it amazes me that some people can’t deal with other people’s opinions if they are not the same as their opinions. I think we all love the show maybe for different reasons or else we would not be on this page. If we express alike, a love, a dislike, a disappointment, etc. It only comes from our devotion and dedication to the show.
        I hope they could release the DVD soon, so you can watch the season and enjoy it, and tell us what you’re thinking about every episode. Your viewpoint will always be appreciated and I’m enjoying and having fun exchanging our thoughts. Thanks again for your time and your Patients with my rambling.

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        • I would be happy to discuss Martin Deeks all day long, all year long. I’m sure if we tried hard enough we would find something we couldn’t agree on. The thing with other people’s opinions is that sometimes they make you see things differently. Sometimes they make you change your mind, not often, but sometimes. That’s the joy of wikiDeeks. So far watching the DVDs my view agrees with Karen’s reviews and most of the comments. I enjoy your ‘ramblings’ so much, so much heart. Yes, it is fun exchanging our thought’s, I wonder what we will think of Season 13?

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      • They could definitely please us more! I watch it solely for Densi! (see my comment). And yes, Deeks, M.: Multiple episodes for sure!!

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    • You summed it up great!! (See my comment)

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    • Totally agree!

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  8. Debra Gillespie // May 27, 2021 at 12:56 AM // Reply

    Fine review as usual, Karen. And thanks for the link to the Gemmill interview – it certainly cleared up some questions but make me think of other ones. For example, this is pretty trivial, but actually how many episodes are needed to reach 300? I’ve heard 20 bandied around, but Gemmill says 19 and the imdb site indicates there has been 281 episodes so far. But then from the interview it sounds like CBS is ordering just 18 episodes like this last season. Probably just overthinking this and it will be known for sure in time.
    The kidnapping has got to be the funniest one I’ve ever seen on TV or film. I’m sure a few Deeks fans were hoping for a little more angst, but it certainly set the tone for most of the episode. Ah Kirkin – the comedy gift to this show that keeps on giving, even though he’s gone. I hope we see plenty more of his “merry men” in season 13 and how it affects Deeks now he’s in charge of them.
    When Beale was showing off his new Lamborghini to Deeks, I was wishing that he also was going to tell Deeks he was paying back the loans Deeks had given him, and a percentage in interest in gratitude. Certainly was disappointed about Beale not bringing up the subject. I’m hoping that Nell will give him a firm remainder while in Tokyo, or that Kirkin bequeathed Deeks some legal assets that Deeks could inherit, and not just the shady part of his empire.
    I get the feeling that Hetty was searching for the same file/folder in her office that Callen was. I was delighted that Hetty was back, and from the Gemmill interview it looks like we’ll see a lot of her in season 13. But from Kilbride wanting to remodel Mosely’s old office, it looks like he’ll be back next season also. If Linda Hunt wants to take an occasional episode off next season, McRainey has shown he can take up the slack. And if Hetty and Kilbride are there at the same time, even though he outranks her, I’m sure there could be some interesting confrontations, just like Hetty and Granger had in the earlier seasons.
    Lovely parting scene with Hetty and Nell. I confess when Hetty said she had her a** in alligators, I immediately thought of her knowing that Rogers had a list of a lot of her black ops from “Mother” that could cause her a lot of trouble. They’ve never continued with that storyline – probably because of Covid – but that’s another story arc the writers could work on. The finale had a lovely, bittersweet ending which I agree was a good way to end the season, but it also left plenty of storylines – Kessler, possible Densi adoption, the Russians and more about Callen’s childhood (according to Gemmill), a possible looking into how far the Bertie/Arkady relationship is (please,oh please on that!), etc. The writers don’t really need to imagine more storylines for season 13; there’s plenty out there on the table already.
    A fellow fan told me a while back that Barrett Foa was hinting on his IG account about his possible leaving the show, and so I wasn’t surprised when it turned out to be true. I was more taken aback about Renee’s leaving for some reason. But she’s been excited about her latest children’s book and certainly is ready for more projects. I wish her and Barrett the best (wasn’t he planning on producing a wrestling movie for Netflix?) and sincerely hope that he and Renee come back to the show for the 300th episode.
    Wishing all the contributors and fans on Wikideeks a great summer, and the continued slow but sure recovery from this pandemic.

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  9. Thank you Karen and Wikideeks! I don’t post often, but I really enjoy this site. I really enjoyed that we got a few episodes this season that were just good old fashion fun episodes. This one included.

    My wishes for next season, less Densi angst, more of the core four together, more humor, and of course, more competent Deeks. I really hope they don’t turn the Kessler story into some kind of Kensi torture scenario. I don’t need that kind of darkness on this show. I think when they try to get too dark and moody, the episodes fall flat. At least for me.

    I’m going to miss Eric and Nell. Ops hasn’t been the same since they stopped working together up there. I haven’t warmed up to Fatima yet, I think they tried to make her too perfect at everything. Roundtree I like, but he should be getting some of Sam’s tough love. I missed Mama Deeks too. I think her and Arkady could be alot of fun next season. And I hope they don’t just drop Deeks running the Kirkin empire. Watching him try to make honest men out off all of them has endless opportunites.

    Anyway, I just wanted to contribute because I really enjoy this site and appreciate all the hard work you do.

    Thanks for being here for us Deeks fans!

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  10. Before commenting, I’d like to mention a few things (or else I’ll forget, lol!):

    1) Season 13 has been optioned for 18 episodes. They need 19 to get to 300. NCIS-NO (which I never watched) was cut off after 16 episodes because the ratings fell fast.

    2) It felt like a series finale because it was written and shot as a series finale. Nobody at that time was sure whether or not a renewal was happening. That being said, it was pretty bad either way. Zero loose ends and storylines wrapped up or answered.

    3) Did Callen actually say to Sam (in the car) ‘we put a global pandemic behind us?’. Really? They choose to ignore the pandemic and as a result, at no point, did anybody in any episode wore a mask, social distance, nor were any of the places they went closed or shut down due to the referred to pandemic. It’s insulting to the viewers for the writers of the show to think we are too dumb to notice these things.

    4) I am really tiring of the promos turning out to be the entire scene in the show, mostly at the end, to keep viewers watching it live in order to get the ratings, like Hetty’s “return” for instance. The promos were exactly what we got in the show.

    5) It was mentioned people like to see Hidoko return. I personally loved Hidoko. She fit in great with the team as well. However, has everybody forgotten how she met her horrific end? She was captured in Mexico, had her tongue cut out, and was then burned alive. Nell had to break the news to Killbride, who then had to notify her family; and there was an episode where Sam and Callen met with her mother in the ending scene.

    Onto the episode: To date, I am still not sure what I actually watched, lol. A dolphin with military spyware implanted. Really? I saw comments on FaceBook and IG stating ‘people never laughed so hard”. Since when is this a comedy?

    Fatima (and Rountree) need to go!!! Fatima really crossed the line completely when she snapped at Kensi like a petulant teenager – it’s bad enough she looks like a 12-year-old boy pretending to play cowboys and Indians as it is. Kensi should have stepped up and asked her who the hell she thought she was talking to. I could care less about the Fatima and Rountree beach scene, to me it was time that could have been given for what everybody has been begging for: Densi!!

    I’m glad Nell is finally gone, she was never my favorite and had become downright annoying in season 12. That being said, the actress herself did not deserve to go out the way they made her go. The comments she received on FaceBook and Instagram were awful. After 12 years, she deserved better. She never should have been written in as Hetty’s replacement (nor being the one to send Deeks out of the office).

    Hetty supposedly is coming back for season 13, but I really do hope she will not be in and out on “missions” (at her age and with her physical limitations no less, zero credibility). Either 100% in or 100% out, please, it is has been annoying for awhile now. She always leaves her team hanging without any clues or leadership.

    Someone mentioned, as I have done so many times, why on earth is billionaire Eric not lending Deeks and Kensi a financial helping hand??? Deeks, over the years and good-hearted as he is, has lent Eric thousands without ever asking for a penny back. Now he drives up in a 400K car and doesn’t bother with anybody? He blew it in my book, acting like nobody else existed in his new Universe, except Nell. You don’t treat people like that, Eric. Bye-bye.

    I so agree with not allowing any of the actors to put on their own clothes (ECO!) for an episode. It is confusing and completely out of style with the show’s wardrobe. Plus, the scene between Deeks and Kensi in the armory was so obviously partially ad-libbed as opposed to scripted (not the first time either). It’s noticeable and unprofessional.

    I think one of the huge problems this season when it came to intimacy scenes is that the lines have blurred for ECO and DR. They have posted so many pics and vids about their families vacationing together, etc. it is interfering with them maintaining their roles as Deeks and Kensi (the awkwardness is starting to show), and therefor them having some true intimacy scenes (nothing to do with Covid). For crying out loud, again, when did they last actually kiss, held hands, had a bed scene, or a cuddling couch scene??

    Deeks suggested adoption to Kensi quite a few times over the years and she outright rejected it from the start. If it happens, it would be in the show’s finale because there is no way Deeks would allow either one of them in the job with a child or children (he has made it clear a few times this would be a deal breaker).

    We never got the Deeks, M. episode and I wonder if we ever will. It has been so long and so much has happened, we’d need multiple Deeks M. episodes to make up for lost time. For the longest time, btw, everyone thought his middle name was Andrew (it was mentioned on social media numerous times) so the Atticus part made no sense to me.

    I agree with Nutterbutter in that is has also been quite awhile since the writers have focused on something meaningful and always sticking with Russia (this entire season no less). There is China, North Korea, the ENTIRE middle East, not to mention domestic naval crimes. Has nobody ever heard of the sexual assaults female naval officers have to endure from within their own unit? Instead, we get Russian military dolphins?

    And, once again, Deeks was made the laughing stock without giving him the enormous credit he so deserves. I said it before and I will say it again: He is the safest TV husband in America and they treat him like sh*t (please do not pardon my French!). Not only that, this season he became target practice for his own wife as well.

    And yes, I would also – for once – see Kensi choose Deeks over the job. Maybe Deeks should pack up and check into a hotel for a week to make her realize what she might lose here. After all these years and the supposed “growing”, she is still more her job than Deeks’ wife. And that is the true tragedy because, after all these years, where does that leave Deeks…..?

    It is really really late in a show (after 12 years) to do some thorough background stories because they have thrown out so many tidbits throughout the years without answering any of them (and I really do not want to see any more of Callen, tbh, we had his father, his sister, Anna, Joelle, Katya, I’m done already).

    1) Why did Deeks shoot his father at 11? What happened that an 11 year old had to shoot his own father?
    2) Where was his mother when all of this happened?
    3) What happened to Deeks-the-little-boy after he did this?
    4) Why did he change from being a prosecutor to a cop? How and why did Hetty recruit him?
    5) Why was it so impossible for Kensi to stay with her mother after her father died?
    6) What happened to her during a year on the streets in downtown Los Angeles as a 15-year-old?
    7) How did she get herself back on her feet and into school and into Cornell?

    I could write a novel about the trail of unanswered bread crumbs dropped that were not only never followed up on but at times seems to have been completely forgotten by the writers. These 7 questions alone could fill half a season.

    I have to say that the show is not handling the aging of the characters very well. It is completely understandable that, in a job like this, your reflexes, your stamina, etc. slow down. However, it does not make you obsolete or replaceable at the snap of a finger. And bringing in Mr. and Mrs. Boring-can’t-act-and-do-not-fit-in is not helping the situation. To me, it feels like they are trying to faze Deeks and Kensi out by giving screen time to banter scenes to Fatima and Rountree and all I can scream is STOP!!! They have no chemistry, not with each other, not with the team, not with the viewers.

    This last episode to me was a huge let down (for me anyway, others might feel different). Again, zero intimate Densi scenes, a Hetty scene I’d already seen a thousand times over on YouTube and Instagram, no answers on the bar, Kessler, and a lame storyline about Deeks being made the class clown again (he’s 43, people!) while inheriting a crime empire, and the team showing up with assault rifles over a dolphin.

    A ton of missed opportunities this season, the biggest one being not allowing Deeks and Kensi to grow as a married couple, but constantly bringing Deeks down and having Kensi heap upon that notion.

    I didn’t see Kensi as fragile and broken this season. She was angry, immature, inconsiderate and selfish (and I am someone who loves Kensi). This pattern of her always taking her frustrations and anger out on Deeks (and making fun of him) has been an ongoing pattern for years now. She needs to stop using him as a punching bag and he needs to stop being her doormat. This is not okay. And give us some PDA, for goodness sake. They are technically barely out of their honeymoon (something they also dragged out, and then it turned out to be a weekend in Malibu, without us ever seeing a scene).

    I have no idea what season 13 will look like. If 12 was any indication and if they keep the same writers, they might not make it to 18 episodes. They need 2 full-time replacements for Nell and Eric. Fatima and Rountree are not trained techies, viewers don’t like them. People are demanding answers and stronger storylines, they are tired of “filler” episodes. When the original Kessler episode aired, they lost close to 2.5 million viewers. And Kirkin leaving Deeks his entire crime syndicate? Please please please do not go the way of that storyline in season 13. No more Russia and no more Callen/Russia back stories. Enough is enough.

    I hope they keep Deeks’ nicely trimmed look. DR’s hair, thank God, is growing out and, while in Portugal, she does not seem to be over-exercising so much and her skeletal look is gone. We want our strong but sweet Kensi back! We definitely want Competent Deeks! Since he seems to be the only one with a moral compass, making him team leader seems like an excellent option to me. I hope they let Fatima and Rountree go. Maybe they can get Garcia since Criminal is off the air.

    Thank you Karen for your amazing reviews (and Diane as well for stepping in!). Thank you for everybody on here for never sinking to the level of name-calling and disrespect but always allowing people to express their opinions and commenting likewise.

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    • Do you think we can keep these discussions going until the new season starts? Hope so. You have made lots of interesting points there. I can’t agree with all of them, not that I necessarily disagree. I just haven’t seen some of the things you mentioned. I am still looking forward to watching Season 12, I’m even going to try to keep an open mind about Fatima. Not easy.

      Perhaps I can pick’n’mix some of your points. Hidoko’s return, I think the ‘media’ saw a remark somewhere and thought it would make a good story. I don’t think there was ever any substance to it, but once it’s in print, people will believe it. No it wouldn’t make sense.

      I think Eric saw the money Deeks gave him as ‘investments’ rather than loans to be repaid. Once these investments turned a profit then Deeks was due his share, not just a handout. They did seem to mess with Eric’s character, or did the money go to his head?

      Martin Atticus Deeks, we get so little history we have to make it up to fill in the blanks. Fanfiction writers seemed to favour Andrew so that’s what we felt it was. We were wrong. Brings me to your seven questions, again we don’t know so we fill in the blanks. All we do know about the shooting is that his father was ‘one drink away’ from killing Deeks and his mother with a shotgun, and Deeks used a gun his friend Ray gave him. A lot of people see his mother as being at fault, even Roberta blames herself. I see her more as a victim, the only ‘baddie’ is Deeks’ father. Even so I see him as more of a loser, a petty criminal, rather than an out and out baddie, but I am just making it up. Again we don’t know, and I would like to. Some of these questions were discussed here a year ago, made interesting reading. As far as I remember Kensi ran away from her mother, evidently didn’t want to live with her. I need to watch ‘Blye K’ again, not one I’ve got on DVD, but it will be on again soon. Must admit I’m not so interested in Kensi’s backstory, but I do hope you get your answers.

      Yes to Garcia. I loved Criminal Minds. Fell in love with it during one of my visits to America, then I was thrilled when it turned up on my TV screen. The character played by Shemar Moore, was abused as I child. There were often references to it and the effect it had on him. There is never any reference to Deeks’ childhood trauma, or the effect it had on him. I do have a question here. I’m not a fan of Callen, I don’t want them to get rid of him and I’d like to see him happy. His own partner described him as a sullen loner, he only really cares for Hetty, Sam and maybe Anna, oh yes and any troubled child. He’s borderline dysfunctional, not outgoing, but that is understandable given his childhood. Deeks had a traumatic childhood, yet he is open, kind hearted everything Callen isn’t. I just wondered why. Did he have therapy as a child to grow up apparently so well balanced?

      Kensi has always kicked Deeks’ suggestions into touch, Deeks proposed three times, okay Kensi was in a coma for one of them, then she decides to propose. Deeks suggested moving in together, Kensi laughed, when they did move in together it was Kensi’s idea. Do they ever discuss things like grown ups? I do get tired of Kensi’s digs at Deeks, but she’s always been like that. I’m still undecided about a Densi baby. I would go for adoption rather than Kensi getting pregnant. I can only see problems. It would be kidnapped at some point of course. Something for the series finale I think.

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      • I’d love to keep a discussion going if it is allowed by WikiDeeks! It’s totally okay to disagree with me, no worries at all, that’s what makes for great conversation!

        I also think Eric saw the money as investments, but I always had a feeling Deeks knew he’d never see an actual return on his investment. He was just being a supportive friend. That does not take away from the fact he ‘invested’ thousands of dollars (at one point the amounts were actually mentioned along the years) into Eric’s little schemes and, yes, he deserves a return on those investments. Deeks himself would never bring it up, but the fact that Eric sailed in there proclaiming he was a billionaire and never did the right thing made me put him on my blacklist. That’s pretty shameful.

        Martin Atticus Deeks indeed. Their names on the wedding invitation actually said Kensi Marie Blye and Martin Andrew Deeks, his middle name was also mentioned a long time ago on the show as Andrew, and then the writers chose to go with Atticus, which ignited a huge social media debate. So I am not sure who is in the wrong here….. As we know, the writers have often forgotten things they themselves have written for these characters in the past!

        I disagree with Roberta being a victim, and she absolutely should blame herself. At no point, being a mother, under any circumstance, do you let it get to a point where your 11-year-old child has to shoot his father. And under no circumstance would such a child be allowed to return to his mother, he would be taken by CPS on the spot. I remember him being in the hospital after his torture and Hetty gave him the file which revealed his father had passed. Deeks told Hetty who he should put down as an emergency contact now (and Hetty told him “Henrietta Lange”). So for Roberta to just waltz in after all these years of abandonment and trauma, and Deeks embracing her as if nothing happened, I have a really hard time justifying that in my mind.

        The same goes for Kensi. Apparently, she had a pretty great life when her dad was still alive. A lot of children and teenagers lose their fathers at 15 and don’t go off the grid. How did Kensi go from surviving on the streets of Los Angeles as opposed to staying with her mother? What happened for her at home to make such a drastic choice? We all know what 15-year-old girls have to do to survive on the streets. And, as with Deeks, they hugged for a minute, and everything was honky-dory. I just can’t justify that one either.

        The writers have had years to give us at least peaks into their teenage years but wasted every opportunity.

        The backstories in Criminal Minds (a show I adored) were so marvelously done. We knew every one of them. Shemar Moore was abused as a child. JJ’s sister killed herself when she was 17. Garcia lost both her parents when she was a teenager. Spencer has Asperberger’s and his mom is a schizophrenic. I could go on. The writers wove it all into the stories over the years without ever making it boring or repetitive.

        I am also not a Callen fan. This show was initially written as a spin-off of the OG-NCIS (which I never watched) especially for Chris O’Donnell. I don’t think anybody expected Densi to take off the way it did. Actually I do not think Callen is well balanced at all. He doesn’t even come close to Deeks in that regard. Callen is sullen, bitter, demeaning to others, dysfunctional, angry all the time, and has no problem crossing the line when it comes to people he cares about, but is unsupportive of Deeks during FLETC, his firing, and when Kensi had to go see Kessler. He (and Sam) has always thumbed this nose at Deeks, while Deeks was always the better one out of all of them.

        As I said many times before, but it became especially clear after so many binged during the pandemic, and in season 12, it is Kensi’s way or the highway. Just because she has always been like that does not make it okay. And this season, it seems to only have worsened. Deeks was hurting big time too. Humiliated at FLETC, not because he wanted to, but because she wanted him to, losing his job, losing the bar (I presume), huge financial distress, pregnancy stress, and not to mention the stress of always and forever being the laughing stock; when Kensi hung up the phone after he told her how much he was struggling at FLETC, this for me was the moment where he realized how little to no support he had received from his team over the years and how it finally hit home.

        There have been no one-on-one adult conversations at all this season, or – my biggest pet-peeve – intimate scenes. Always on the go and always on Kensi’s terms. This had nothing to do with Covid. There were two huge proposals this past TV year; One on Chicago Fire (Stella and Severide) and one on Chicago PD (Hailey and Jay), both shows had plenty of intimate scenes at home, in bed, anywhere in private. Not on stake-outs, not in a parking spot, not in an armory, not at the mess, and none with bullets flying around.

        I think an actual pregnancy would be a show killer. Kensi would be on desk duty for the entire time and then for a 3-month pregnancy leave. Where does that leave our beloved Densi in the field? A pregnancy/adoption/surrogacy would, in my opinion, probably be saved for the last episode of the series with them having secured jobs in a safe(r) field (Deeks deal-breaker for starting a family).

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        • We are pretty much on the same page, M, when it comes to character things. Especially with Roberta and how that would have likely played out. I remain convinced there had to be another positive figure in Deeks’ backstory somewhere, and it’s hinted at by Ray to a degree. I’ve started watching NCIS NO recently, and the character backgrounds on that show are very well-drawn. There’s also a very solid team/family feel, with a team leader who on the whole cares about his people (lesson for Callen…).

          When it comes to Callen…there is an elephant in the room and its name is Hetty. Is it just coincidence that most of the people she mentored turned out to be dysfunctional when it comes to relationships? We have Mosley, Hunter, Callen, and at least two other agents who passed through. All of them share those same characteristics, and the one thing they have in common is Hetty.

          It bothers me they treat Deeks as an almost disposable character when he really provides the conscience and moral backbone of the team. And as far as Deeks’ middle name goes, that’s something that should have been in the series bible from the beginning. I would be interested to know why they changed it, and where the change originated.

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          • I’m intrigued RobbieC, I never saw any connection between Moseley and Hetty. I’m not saying there isn’t, I just never saw it. It would make sense, she was dysfunctional. I’m working my way through the DVDs, on Season 7. When I get to Season 9 I will have to watch points. I could never understand how Hetty managed to collect all these children, yet they never seemed to know about the others.

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          • I was thinking about Ray as well, but it seems as though both of them only became close due to childhood trauma. A positive male adult influence was never mentioned as far as I can remember. And Ray didn’t exactly steer clear from the wrong path in life.

            I don’t think Hetty mentored Mosely (or did I mis-interpret you wrong, sorry if I did). Apart from her inexplicable dislike for Deeks, I actually liked Mosely. She kept the team in check and tried to go more by the book. As she said to Callen: “The days of shooting first and asking questions later are over”.

            I don’t think anybody can surpass Hetty (nor the formidable Linda Hunt) but she did leave her team hanging a lot with her constant disappearances; and let them run wild equally, i.e. no warrants, no Miranda rights, picking locks, bodies dropping left and right, things blowing up all over the place.

            Hetty’s back story is also a mystery in that there is no possible way she would ever be allowed to serve in places like Vietnam (or other foreign war zone) with her physical statute and it’s subsequent limitations. And how and why exactly did she find and pick Callen?

            I think it bothers everybody who reads WikiDeeks the way Deeks has been treated and continues to be treated (or should I say written) after all these years and after all he has done for each and every member of his team. As the only one with a moral compass, he would be the one choice for team leader as opposed to Callen.

            (See my response to Lyssa regarding Deeks’ middle name).

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            • It’s worth remembering that NCIS LA is modeling the (fictitious) Office of Special Projects, which is intended to be the covert arm of NCIS. They wouldn’t investigate the kind of things NCIS and NCIS NO get, because it’s not in their mission brief. I’d say their most direct counterpart in the world of TV crime dramas is the 5-0 team (as in Hawaii 5-0).

              Deeks’ relationship with Ray has always interested me, and I don’t think they became friends just because of childhood trauma. Like most things related to Deeks’ background it isn’t discussed much, but the career choices they gave him speak (at least to me) to some kind of positive outside influence.

              And Mosley only kept the team on the “straight and narrow” when it suited her to do so. I had a distinct recollection of Mosley saying she learned many of her tricks from Hetty, so I may be confusing that with Hunter. In any case, it’s hard to deny Mosley and Hetty have very similar operational styles…the biggest difference being the level of loyalty Hetty can pull from her hand-picked team (which isn’t unlike the loyalty Hidoko showed to Mosley). And as for Hetty being in Vietnam…the direct implication is she was CIA at the time. She could certainly have served in that capacity (especially in the ’60s). I agree it’s not necessarily believable, but it is possible.

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              • I hear Covid being used as an excuse so much with regards to the way the show and its scenes has been shot this season and it is simply not true. My employers are in the industry and have quite a few shows up and running and are doing just fine with the Covid restrictions. They are not only shooting intimate scenes but scenes with multiple people in one room interacting without a single infection or safety-breach. I think everybody figured this was the series finale and became too lazy to care.

                For me that one picture of Hetty sitting in the army truck with the rest of her team in Vietnam was always off, but she could have been CIA then, good point. I still find it heard to believe, however, she would actually be allowed to serve in a war zone in the field that severe. She would have been a case manager. She was supposedly in a war zone during season 12 and there is no way a CIA operative can simultaneously be an NCIS operative. She fell short height, physical condition-wise and age-wise to be in any type of war zones quite a few years ago.

                I have not lived in and around the military and even I found Kensi’s choice to live on the streets as a 15-year-old rather than staying at home after her father died – without a single explanation why – also very off the mark. Unless there was severe abuse (and it doesn’t seem that way from the way they reunited) it makes no sense.

                There actually is still stigma about females asking for mental help, let alone males. However, this should not be the case between a husband and wife in private. I would have liked to have seen Deeks have a best friend he could have turned to, but it seems literally everybody left him hanging, and that sadly included Kensi herself.

                I do remember the episode with Kensi at the end saying she would baby sit but only if Deeks would do it with her. I didn’t see it as her being uncomfortable around kids. At that point, they were not at the point in their relationship where they were discussing a future together with children.

                Mosely definitely had her own agenda but that was completely centered around getting her son back at one point. Before that, there was some really good episodes (like the gun show, one of the better ones for me) and she kept her team under great control. What happened to Hidoko is unforgiveable. I don’t know why the writers chose to go this way. Especially now that we are stuck with the insufferable Fatima when they could have brought Hidoko back.

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        • I’m very curious as to where these previous mentions of Deeks’s middle name were. Because as far as I’ve looked (and I’ve scoured), I’ve not found anything official from the show on his middle name before it was stated this season. I can think of 3 instances (2×23, 4×20, 6×18) where we saw his name printed, and each time it just had the initial. But if it’s been anywhere else I am very curious to see!

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          • Their names are on the wedding invitation as Kensi Marie Blye and Martin Andrew Deeks (I cannot upload it but it is easy to find on social media). It has also been mentioned on episodes very early on, however, nobody seems to be able to find those scenes…hmm. After they came out with the name Martin Atticus Deeks, a debate ensued on social media and somebody (CBS?) started a rumor that a “fan” had designed the wedding invitation and the name Andrew never existed. To date, it remains an unsolved mystery.

            It’s not the first time or the first show to put a spin on things to cover up their mishap. For example: I am a huge The Walking Dead fan and at one point they had to make an entire scene disappear, and then made us wait more than a month (because they re-shot the scene and hoped fans wouldn’t notice) before the scene mysteriously popped up again, re-shot and with a completely different angle/story at that.

            And though I have never watched Game of Thrones, who could forget about the infamous Starbucks coffee cup that was left standing on a table in an episode that actually aired!

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        • So about Roberta, yes it’s good to disagree. It was Season 2 after he was shot, that Hetty gave him the file. Only Sam spoke to Deeks in hospital after his torture, but that’s another peeve. I think we didn’t hear about Roberta at that point because she didn’t exist. The writers didn’t create her till ‘Citadel’ Season 7. We just assumed she was dead or at least out of the picture. We never got any details about her or her whereabouts, so we have to make it up. We see things that aren’t there, or don’t see things that are there. I never saw a rift between Deeks and his mother, quite the opposite. I might be alone thinking that, I can live with that. We don’t really know a huge amount about Deeks father. Roberta described him as a mean drunk and a clown she had to support. So Deeks doesn’t take after his father then. I don’t think we will ever learn the story about the shooting of his father.

          I think your description of Callen is far better than mine, I couldn’t agree more. I’m done with his backstory, Hetty and his childhood. There was a conversation between Hetty and Callen. It was early, possibly ‘Human Traffic’. Callen asked Hetty when she first noticed him. He reeled of a number of places, which I can’t remember. What I’m getting at, is it sounded as if Callen was an adult when Hetty found him. Yet we’re told Hetty helped him as a child.

          I agree with your take on Kensi. Her way or the highway. I must admit I tolerate her because Deeks loves her. I think she is headstrong and cares little for other peoples feelings. That’s why she rejected her mother. So I should feel concerned about her time on the streets, but it was her choice so I don’t.

          I think all the baby talk stems from the argument before they went to Mexico. It was huge, they split up. Deeks capitulated, as usual, and they eventually married. I would have preferred TPTB to ignore the baby issue, but they obviously felt otherwise. I would have been happy knowing Kensi was willing to have a baby, but let nature take it’s course. Perhaps we should blame ECO, he wrote the episode where Kensi changed her mind.

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          • I don’t think we ever saw the actual rift between Deeks and Roberta (then again, we never saw it between Kensi and her mom either). As you so rightly pointed out, she never existed until 7 years in. However, allowing your child to grow up around a mean drunk to the point he has to shoot him as an 11-year-old and then vanishing from his life says enough about her for me.

            Yes, they picked a great actress to portray her and wrote her as funny and no-nonsense, but that does nothing to clarify or redeem Deeks’ past. I also doubt we will ever find out the details of Deeks’ childhood, or Kensi living on the streets and the aftermath for that matter.

            We have seen scenes of Callen as a young boy meeting Hetty on the sidewalk, but the exact where and when and why has never been clarified. There was another scene where he left with Hetty while a young girl (with her parents?) in the background screamed “Callen, no, no!!”. Nobody ever cleared that one up. Nor how she found Callen and sought him out. Was she stalking little foster children, lol?

            I do absolutely love Kensi and she actually showed a lot of growth being during seasons 6, 7, 8, and some of 9; however, the more Deeks enabled, the more she reverted to her old ways (the exception being Better Angels, 10×13, one of my very favorites and one of the best of the series, in my opinion, and it was not about Russia for a change!), and in Season 12, it went off the rails with how her character was written and the angry way she portrayed her character.

            They’d actually been talking about starting a family and having a baby before the gut-wrenching (although it was drama for the sake of drama, it still gets me!) wedding break up fight. Deeks wanted a little girl, Kensi a little boy. He wanted to name her Princess Deeks, she wanted Athena, but still said she thought she’d be a great mom to a little boy. Those little discussions between them happened all the time, but always with one firm condition by Deeks: We are not staying in these jobs if we decide on having a baby.

            The wedding fight was therefore, in my opinion, on Kensi. She acted as if she did not know how he felt of where he stood on the subject when it was very well known and stated. After barely being married 1.5 years, she absolutely insists on IVF and jumping into it right away, whether Deeks had reservations or not (they were losing the bar, he was losing his job, they could not afford the house, and they still had not found safer jobs).

            Then, out of the blue, it is Kensi who decides to stop IVF and maybe consider adoption, forgetting this is Deeks’ life, marriage, future, and child(ren) too and his decision is equal to hers. And what really bugs me, is that Deeks gives in every single time, and never ever calls her out on her behavior.

            She went through the hell of IVF, yes, but he went through that same hell with her, and he had a pile of other issues on his plate (loss of his job and therefore his team, crumbling bar, forced FLETC he thought he failed, huge financial problems).

            (I am not giving much credit to the whole Kessler thing, btw. Him being in Kensi’s head after one appearance in 12 years is ludicrous).

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            • Oh, M, do you ever get an idea stuck in your head that you know is wrong, but you have trouble shifting it? Okay, just me then. This baby talk business. Somehow I got it into my head that Kensi didn’t want children. Yes she did, but not just yet, eventually, not anytime soon. The problem with the ‘argument’ was that Deeks, sacked and humiliated, asked Kensi for a timeframe which she couldn’t give. He mistook that for her saying she didn’t want children. Kensi isn’t good at listening. Feelings ran high and it was misunderstanding after misunderstanding. There had been baby talk before that, it started in Season 3, I must admit I thought most of it was rhetorical. I still don’t know where they stand regarding staying in the job as parents. I change my mind I suppose they can too.

              Did Roberta really vanish from Deeks life, if so when? You are absolutely right she should have protected her son. Even Roberta would agree with you, she still beats herself up over it, which is why I don’t believe she abandoned Deeks when he was young. She may have moved away when he was older, physical distance rather than emotional distance. Listening to the conversations in ‘Internal Affairs’ it seems they had a close relationship. I’ve never been in an abusive or toxic relationship and I am reluctant to judge anyone who was, even a fictional character. When you’re in a bad place you can make bad, or no decisions. Deeks doesn’t seem to blame his mother. This is all guesswork and I would like to know what really happened. Not so much Callen’s childhood, nor Kensi’s come to that. How did Deeks grow up to be so open and upbeat? I can’t believe he’s not affected by his past.

              I think bad decisions were at the root of Kensi’s time on the street. Kensi has said as much. A lot of the story is explained in ‘Blye K’. If I remember right, I do sometimes, she ran away from her mother to live with her father, she blamed her mother for her parents break-up. Who looked after her while her father was away? Why couldn’t she stay with them after her father was killed? Then the big one, why wouldn’t she live with her mother. I put it down to stubbornness.

              Yes it always bugs me too, that Deeks gives in every time and lets Kensi trample all over his wishes and feelings. They don’t do much in the way of adult discussions, unfortunately.

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              • They made a big deal early on about Kensi not being comfortable around children (don’t remember the exact episode, but it had to do with Sam trying to find someone to babysit his kids so he and Callen could go to a Clippers game).

                I think because of the pandemic restrictions (and possibly some doubt about the show being picked up for another season) TPTB got lazy on the plot side and let things fall back into old habits (Kensi’s cookie-cutter behavior, the Russia plots). And to address a point raised later, I think ECO would be cautious about raising points regarding Deeks because it’s his role and it might be viewed as out of line. Plus there is still a massive stigma about male characters needing help and support (aside from the obnoxious “are we good” comments and bro-slaps on the back). To its credit, NCIS NO took this on in a very direct way (more than once). Just once I’d love to see Deeks reply “no, we’re not good” when someone like Sam asks him that.

                Having lived in/around the military, I can say the way they treated Kensi’s father’s death and her ability to just run away is rather far from the mark. But that’s insider knowledge they wouldn’t expect viewers to have (and honestly the writers/producers might not have had, either). I have a feeling the “on the streets” comment might have been a one-off plot device. It’s also quite possible she came to Hetty’s attention around this time.

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                • The early episode where Kensi was uncomfortable around children was the one were Sam didn’t want Deeks anywhere near his children. Top man Sam Hanna! I don’t think Deeks gets too many bro’ slaps from anyone. Since when did anyone like Sam, or anyone at all, ask Deeks are we good? That’s my point. To answer my question, yes we are the only people concerned for Deeks welfare. I thought it was Kessler that got Kensi on Hetty’s radar.

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                  • There was a comment about how Kensi made the case and put him away, and how that got her on Hetty’s radar, made by Callen this season. However, as far as I can remember, in Blye, K. it became clear the only reason she joined NCIS-LA was to find out the truth about the death of her father (hence all her secrets trips to Hawaii). Another loose end….

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                    • Didn’t Kensi join OSP before Hetty? Macie (Macey?) was in charge in the original pilot/spinoff, when Gibbs and McGee went to LA. Was Hetty just MIA? Did Macie recruit Kensi?

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              • Deeks was 100% in the right asking Kensi for a time frame with regards to their future. They were about to get married and start a family. How long did she expect him to walk around waiting? They were not getting any younger. Her reaction was immature.

                She also said that if getting pregnant was not going to happen for them, she’d want to stay in the job. However, they had no way of knowing what would happen. All Deeks wanted was some sort of plan about their future, something he had been trying to get from her for a long time.

                They were standing in a parking garage while he was being escorted off the job and she should have walked off with him, telling Mosely she’d take the day. Instead, she chose the job over Deeks, again. She was wrong. And what did Deeks do? He got on the plane, to be right by her side, as always.

                We all know Kensi can be headstrong and stubborn, but stubbornness alone is not enough to make you go live on the streets as a 15-year old girl rather than stay at home with your mother. Her father was away a lot on missions and during that time her mother raised her. Then all of a sudden, at age 15, she had the desire to go live under a bridge? It should not have been put out there without further exploration and explanation, just like Deeks’ shooting of his father.

                I do not know if the showrunner takes notice of WikiDeeks. I think ECO might at times. The showrunner (John Peter Kousakis) is a close friend of my employers, I could ask if the timing is right, but it’s a delicate thing to approach with industry people, lol. See my response to Lyssa about Deeks’ middle name. It has always bugged me too!

                Like I commented to Robbie C: There actually is still stigma about females asking for mental help, let alone males. However, this should not be the case between a husband and wife in private. I would have liked to have seen Deeks have a best friend he could have turned to, but it seems literally everybody left him hanging, and that sadly included Kensi herself.

                Deeks feels he cannot seek support from Kensi (even when he told her how much he was struggling during FLETC all he got was “there is no crying in FLETC” before she hung up on him), but only comfort her and even then only when she allows to be comforted. That is not a healthy for any relationship. It drains the person who is always giving at some point. I think Deeks reached that point when he broke off the wedding. He reached that point again when he told her she need a therapist. Instead, she chose to stop IVF. And he still has no real answers….

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                • Absolutely, it was reasonable for Deeks to ask for a timeframe. Kensi wasn’t ready for kids and couldn’t say if or when she would be, leaving Deeks hanging, like she always does. Deeks always wants a plan and Kensi always denies him, that’s how she is. Certainly she should have gone with Deeks after he was sacked and humiliated, but that’s not how she rolls. I’ve said more than once I’d like to see Kensi choose Deeks over the job, I’d like a lot of things I’m not going to get.

                  I understand the stigma of asking for help, but I think it is a dreadful state of affairs that none of his so called friends bothered to pick up the phone and ask Deeks how he was doing. Please tell me I’m wrong and somebody did. After all Deeks tried to help Beale last season when Nell left.

                  I don’t think there is any reasoning to Kensi’s mindset as a 15 year old, any more than there is now. I don’t think she was living with her mother when her father died, but I do think it was another of her bad decisions. Kensi does tend to make impulsive, ill advised decisions and I think this was a classic. I suppose it should be explained, but it doesn’t fascinate me like Deeks’ backstory does.

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                  • It absolutely was and is a dreadful state of affairs the way Deeks has been treated and was treated this season. Not once did we see any scenes of anybody concerned about Deeks at FLETC or at any other time for that matter. They were all too busy standing around Sabatino making fun of him being there, and watching Fatima and Rountree running around like first-graders with cardboard guns.

                    Not to mention Nell telling him he could not longer be in the building. Nobody had even officially promoted her, who gave her that right? She was a techie! And Deeks walking out of the building alone with a cardboard box after all these years of putting his life on the line? Not something I can easily forgive anybody for.

                    Sam and Callen are lost to me after they threatened to come and rip Deeks’ comms out in the Kessler episode. They were already not on my favorite list this season because of their lack of support for Deeks, but that tipped the bowl. How soon they forgot what Deeks did and gave for their loved ones.

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    • Nutterbutter // June 3, 2021 at 7:02 PM // Reply

      I agree with pretty much everything you wrote M You made an excellent review for the whole season. Sorry for the late reply. My comments below.

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      • I’ll respond to everything as soon as I can! Last week, this weekend, and upcoming week my work schedule is upside-down crazy, lol!

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  11. As I sit here and wait to see if I’m going to have running water in my home this long holiday weekend, this made me smile: “And no, I’m not bitter that we now know why a first-year team member made a career change when we still don’t know why Deeks shifted from attorney to cop. It’s all good.”

    Thanks for another wonderful review, Karen!

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  12. Just a couple of random thoughts, feel free to disagree, or laugh, or both.

    About Deeks middle name, I always thought it was just an initial, same as Callen’s first name. We were never told. In June last year the question was asked here, on wikiDeeks. Psyched posted a long, in depth reply. The short answer, no sign of a middle name. I think it only appeared in fanfic or social media, I don’t think it was changed. I’m not really bothered. It was fairly early in the season when they revealed Deeks middle name. My question is, was it a coincidence or does the showrunner take notice of wikiDeeks? Did they give us a little something to keep us happy?

    I’m not on twitter, but I did see ECO did a twitter thingy, where he answered questions just before the season finale. One of the questions concerned Mental Health. ECO gave an excellent answer, talked about the scene where Deeks told Kensi she needed to talk to somebody. All good. I just wondered if that meant it’s only us commenters here that feel Deeks needed help and support?

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  13. I have to say , I have enjoyed reading all the comments .. I agree deeks has never been supported by any of his coworkers, which is sad, with everything he has done for everyone .. Sam ( his wife) tortured and saved Sam, Callen, went with the team to save Hetty, going across country when Hetty was being tortured in Vietnam, and even kensi, when she was going after fathers killer, the laser room, I was more upset at Fatima, Callen and Sam first kicking him out of opts then about earwig. Fatima and round tree get more support then deeks. I know kensi has a bad rap but I love the two of them together. Come on writers, if your listening. Season 13 put deeks in a great light, let him shine at home with kensi, at work with kensi , Sam and Callen. He deserves everyone’s support.

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    • Too true! Deeks has never been treated well and it seems this season the indifference was taken to a new level, borderline abuse. No doubt TPTB would blame Covid restrictions but that is no excuse. I don’t really care who they have in Ops next season, but I would like to see Deeks treated with the support and respect he deserves. Shine a light on The Dude……please.

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  14. Is anybody else happy to see Kilbride will be a regular next year? I am, the kids need supervision. Granger can never be replaced, but I think Kilbride might come close in time.

    To answer my earlier questions. Yes, definitely TPTB know all about wikiDeeks. Frank Military interview and everything. Do they take any notice of wikiDeeks? Probably not, we/I wouldn’t still be grumbling if they did. Keep hoping though. Perhaps they feel they have other, more important characters to think about.

    The question of Mental health, yes it is only us that feel Deeks needs support. Kensi is written as a strong character. So when she has issues, after the helicopter crash and fertility problems, the writers feel her needs have to be addressed and I wouldn’t argue with that. Deeks on the other hand has always been knocked from pillar to post, and always bounces back. He is the cat for the team to kick when they need to. Actually he is the mouse the cat plays with. Seriously I don’t think it crossed anybody’s mind that Deeks might need more than a few platitudes from Kensi. So, I don’t think anybody thought Deeks Mental Health was cause for concern, not as if he had much to go through. He seemed quite chipper at the end, perhaps they were right.

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    • Nutterbutter // June 3, 2021 at 7:10 PM // Reply

      I’m thrilled when I read Kilbride will be a regular. He has chemistry and has the vibes that add much to the team.

      Another thing say to add, and I’ll take a lot of heat on this. I know the TPTB has planned for all the season and the coming ones but it’s okay if you adjusted your plan stories just for the sake of the viewers and fans. I think we shipped Densi since day one but they didn’t give what we need till season 6 I think and they dragged the wedding story for 4 years and now we have the baby arch to be 3 seasons if we are lucky to end this arch next season. And there are a lot of other factors that could affect the way of playing some stories as pregnancy, or having a baby or have global pandemic or some of the actors engaged in other projects that’s why I think they should give us the most important and essential stories first then drag all you want. IMO I’d rather have 8 or 10 seasons of a TV show packed with enjoyable and satisfying stories and covered all the bases for all the characters and give justice to each character than having 20 seasons of a show with lame stories and filler episodes and shaky backgrounds.
      Some others show obliged to the fans desire and changed some of the stories lines just for the satisfaction of the viewers as I know for the fact the ending of “supernatural” was changed out of respect of the fans. Actually, when you do this out of respect for your viewers that will not affect the ratings, on the contrary, it raises them when you know that our opinions really matter and have been taken into consideration.

      And don’t give me that Shane Brennan was the only one who knows Deeks’ background and his exits caused that delay. Because I’m not buying we’re talking about a hit show on CBC with professional writers so don’t convince me that none of them were able to come up with a constructed story for Deeks background and if this is the issue then they should hire new writers if that’s the case. I know it’s a procedural show, with many actors & actresses in it. So I don’t ask to turn it into soap operas or documentaries or dramas. I’m asking if they could divide the season’s fairy overall characters so each character has 3 or 4 episodes concentrating on their stories and doesn’t need to be dramatic. But the case could relate to their upraising or their teenage period or anything that matters and related to their personality so we could learn more without affecting the nature of the show. And Just for the argument sake if the writers are truly run up out of ideas it’s not shaming to admit that and hire new ones or take a page out of the fanfictions writers and they could build a whole story from scratch out of thin air and it’s reliable and believable and enjoyable (Respect for their hard work). But get rid of all repetitive and marginal storylines.

      Many times I have the impression that the writers drag out some stories indefinitely while they could explore, develop or invent more interesting ones, instead. I know we can’t do anything about it, but I claim the right to be bored and sometimes uninterested like The Russian storylines.
      Callen, we know everything about him we saw him when he was a kid, teenager, young boy, we saw when Hetty recruited him we know about his mother, father sister, fosters families, fake fathers his father’s acquaintance, his girlfriend all his ex-girlfriends his previous jobs he gets shot, poisoned, tortured, and blown up, all have been said and done more than once we sang this song before what’s left Other than see his grandchildren. If I was a Callen fan (not me) I’d be satisfied and my angst fulfilled. Same with Sam

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      • I replied once, but it disappeared, it’s probably with my car keys they’ve gone too. I’ll try to remember what I wrote. I do agree with everything you wrote. I think most of us are on the same page, or at least the same chapter, when it comes to the NCIS:LA storylines. Unfortunately I think the showrunners are reading a different book. I do understand that NCIS:LA is really about Callen and perhaps Sam. Kensi was the obligatory badass female agent. Deeks was just an afterthought, possibly brought in for comic relief. I realise NCIS:LA and the characters don’t belong to us and the showrunners can do what they like with them. That said, they are supposed to entertain us. Of course they do, but they could entertain us so much more. I also understand there are many Callen fans, is there a wikiCallen website? The Callen backstory has been excavated completely. Okay, Callen is brave and bold, but I don’t find him likeable. Deeks is the complete deal, brave and bold, cute and likeable. He is a nugget of gold, and his backstory is a rich seam of gold the showrunners seem reluctant to explore. I don’t understand why they bothered to create a character like Deeks if they didn’t want to use him to his full potential.

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        • Nutterbutter // June 4, 2021 at 4:16 PM // Reply

          I know that the show started about Callen’s life and the showrunners were only focused on discovering the secrets that surrounded his whole life and his partner Sam.
          That was the main theme of the show I get it, but also the other main theme was they are special agents who specialized in covert, and undercover OPS but that changed with the time and the growing of the characters and what stage of life they are representing.
          So what I mean they could afford to adjust the plan and tone of the show on other factors
          Like the age, the growth of the characters, ratings, and of course the audience’s preferences.

          That’s what I was trying to point at above that they don’t need to be laser-focused on one character and neglect the others or focus only on one aspect of the character leave other issues hanging. Since they decided to bring Deeks or any other characters they should give them an equal opportunity to shine and show their core. I’m not saying they need to turn their focus on him (I’d never mind if they do) but give us something that really worthwhile and satisfies all the fans and viewers whether they callenna or Densi, Callen fans, or Deeks fans. They should at least try to adjust the formula to gain the satisfaction from all the viewer’s so no one would feel left out to dry.

          And I know what you mentioned is true that they only brought Deeks as comic relief, but they shouldn’t tease us with his incomplete background stories or gave us hints about his life. They could restrict his appearance on Comedy and they didn’t need to spend their time to build his character and made him a hollow person or shadow of himself like they did with Eric or Nell. I don’t think anyone ever demanded to write their backstories. I know it was a missed opportunity and think of the exit of these characters without addressing their background approbatory after all these seasons is such a shame but well you won’t find me crying myself out for it.
          I’m sorry I know I sound like a broken tape, but seriously what else they want to add or explain about Callen or Sam’s backgrounds after 12 years of attention. I’m sorry have they ever treated like the other charters do? Have they ever appeared only for 10Min the whole episode or worth never showed in the episode? or have they ever get some ridiculous stories and made fun of them like they do with Deeks? So sorry if I sound a little envious.

          And About Kensi being “the badass Blye” I don’t know why sometimes I feel they ironically use this nickname. Name one season she wasn’t hurt or in dangerous situations. Since season 1 she’s got beaten, tortured, held at gunpoint (more than once), kidnapped, get shot, losing in hand fight (also more than once), or blown up. She gets hurt a lot I could name the episodes, but that needs a new post. And of course, the second place goes to their fearless team leader Callen I think these two need to consider their insurance plan and upgrade it (LOL).

          Jessie, K

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          • Sorry, it’s me that bangs on about ‘Badass Blye’. It’s because she is so proud of the skills her father taught her, “all the things a father would teach a son”. She is proud she can take down men bigger than her, she can shoot, fight with a knife, she is a strong woman. That is something to be proud of. Yet she still feels the need to compete, has to be the best. On the other hand empathy is not her strongpoint, perhaps she sees that as weakness.

            You are spot on with your point about giving all the characters a chance to shine. Did I see a scene with Kilbride talking to Callen, it seemed Kilbride didn’t trust Callen? I thought that’s good, Callen doesn’t trust anybody else. Then I read next season there will be a storyline exploring Hetty’s relationship with young Callen. I think I’ll buy some paint so I can watch it dry. There are more characters with their own stories. I’d still like to see Deeks’ story first, but it would be so much better if they could mix it up a bit.

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            • Nutterbutter // June 5, 2021 at 4:51 PM // Reply

              You’re exactly right. Kensi normally would be her badass self, confident and sure about her abilities, but she isn’t emotionally stable. Kensi has trouble showing her feelings for him or anyone else that she cared about, and she’s so stubborn. But she’s also the one who She asked him to be patient with her and that’s what he did and still do (decision to leave the job, painting the room, adoption) but she, on the other hand, is anxious, nervous, and quick-tempered all the time a treating everything like she is on a schedule or in a mission (Even the pregnancy). IMO It always takes something serious or violent to happen, so she could only realize what he means to her. And He is a very strong man and can take what she dishes, but everyone has their breaking point. and that’s what I’m afraid of.

              Kilbride did say to him that Hetty had groomed him. And it’s not shocking anymore if they create a new arch just to address that up. But didn’t they cover that topic already I’d be like a bear with a sore head if they repeat it again. after all Scott gamble said the finale would be darker and revolved around Callen and Anna so looking to the alternative is the dolphin plot or Callen then I will choose the dolphin over on a heartbeat. Since Gerald has become a series regular. He will be the one who might take over for Hetty or become Hetty’s number two, almost like Granger.

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              • Showrunner confirmed last month that Hetty will be back in a larger capacity next Season, also, she made that grumpy admiral put her things back at the end of the episode, that confirms she’s staying. He’s just going to be her partner. (personally I don’t approve, because this has already been twice and it only worked once).
                No need to overthink this.

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                • Sorry, can’t help overthinking these things. Hetty isn’t my favourite character, Deeks is, but I’m really pleased to see she is going to be back where she belongs. Also happy to see Kilbride will be there to ‘help’. Looking forward to seeing if Hetty and Kilbride will play nicely together, I think not. More interested in Hetty and Kilbride’s relationship going forward, than Hetty and Callen’s looking back, but that’s just me.

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                  • Hetty started as a strong, interesting character, but started changing into something less than optimal about a season before we lost Granger. After that it was all downhill. As I noted in the Ochoa Report (and I may do another at some point…who knows?), she’s never been especially honest with her team, but it got worse as things progressed. Her withholding of information hindered missions on more than one occasion.

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                • Nutterbutter // June 6, 2021 at 5:34 PM // Reply

                  I know where you’re coming from, we’ve been down that road before with Granger (It was a success) & Mosley (which was a big and epic miss).
                  But for me, I see adding Kilbride could work out especially when you think about the alternatives (Nell being in charge, leaving the team without higher authority). At least with Kilbride, they used the same approach they used with Granger we’ve got a taste of what they could bring to the table before upgrading them to be regular, and IMO I liked his interactions with the whole team since he was a recurring character in season10. Instead of what tried to do with Mosley and their attempts to shove her in our throat.
                  But I could be wrong and it’s just my opinion, and maybe season13 could prove you’re right about your interpretation of his existence and his Agenda. All we’ve to do is wait and see and they are already made their decisions.

                  Liked by 1 person

        • Same happened to me. I replied to you but it disappeared. I guess computers have a mind of their own sometimes, lol! Like I said to Nutterbutter, looove keeping this going but work is upside down crazy right now, but I will reply and join back in as soon as I can!

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    • Would love to keep this discussion going! I’ll respond as soon as I can! Last week, this weekend, and upcoming week my work schedule is upside-down crazy, lol!

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  15. Nutterbutter // June 3, 2021 at 7:16 PM // Reply

    Sorry I know I’m a little late to the party but since I took my courage pill and knew about this site and I can’t stop commenting. So please bear with me as it’s gonna be along with one so I could cover my interpretation on the different topics that have been brought up here.

    First I’ve to agree with M, Patricia Abbott, and Robbie C everyone of you brought and added something to the discussion. I think that’s why I like these debates it gives me an opportunity to hash out some of the things that either didn’t sit well with me or explore some aspect of the characters, but we pretty much on the same page.

    1) It’s a little surprising to hear that the show is only scheduled to do 18 right now, mostly because NCIS: LA typically has somewhere between 23-24 in a given season. So the news of they will not reach the 300 episodes this year it’s a little shocker and disappointing it’s hard to imagine a scenario where CBS ends things with episode 299.

    2)Let me try to explain Kensi’s behavior from my standing point of view. She seems to acting to her beloved ones like it’s her position and it’s her call to continue the relationship she has with them or stop it and she always treating Deeks and taking him for granted, she has the right to feel jealous of (Talia, Nichols, Monica, Eva) but he doesn’t need to feel the same (Jack the EX “which by the way Deeks was very mature and supportive dealing with him”, Dinnozo, Sullivan) she’s the right to end their relationship and question the possibility to carry on with it (the frozen lake, three hearts, humbug, 7th child, end of season 9) but he cannot do the same or even to have any doubts about their life or to question their relations (Ascension,3 hearts, 7th child, end of season 9) and she felt offended and hurt by his comment that he needs time even after hid torture and he is the one who felt guilty over that and tried to comfort her, not the other way around. it’s like you belong to me and you should act the way I prefer not the way you like. She also feels betrayed or jealous if he had a secret or kept out of the loop on a mission (The Debt- Parley- Drive – the whole IA arch before the reveal ) but when it comes to her it’s okay to keep secrets as it’s her job and no one entitled to discuss it with her (Higher Power – Blye, K- the Afghanistan mission – the silo)

    3)She always seems like looking for herself at the expense of the other like when she decided to take a break from sleeping together “Expiration date” even the most time he needs her around. Like what she did with her mother l like you as long as you will be my dad otherwise I leave you and question her behavior. She is proud of her father but didn’t she discovered that he had been laying on her!!!. She always acts on her own terms.

    4)She only communicates when it suits her whether the situation allows it or not. As if she’s the one who should bring the topic, not the others like in (The Debt-Descent-The Frozen Lack- Humbag-Expiration Date -7th child- the proposal and most of the wedding discussion- the fertility treatment – adoption). Neglecting all surrounding factors and her partner’s feelings or worries.

    5)When she found out that he got fired from his job she trivial his sadness and his worry like it will not be a problem (not in assuring way) but in a condescending way. I couldn’t believe she didn’t see through Deeks and his hurt but when it comes to her problems he needs to supportive passionate about and give her what she needs she is like a spoiled girl she gets what she wants no matter what the others feelings and opinions.

    6)The only thing she knew how to do is to put up walls to shield and protect herself. The only problem with it that she risks pushing Deeks away when he had already worked so hard to break through her walls. And he asked her to see someone because he didn’t know what to do to stop her or to get through to her. They were both dealing with their problems in two very different ways. He masked everything in humor and an enthusiastic way, and all she’s doing is taking her anger & frustration outta him.

    7)Even if we assumed that she acts like that because she had a horrible childhood, her father was killed in the line of duty and she spent a few months here and there on the streets, but that was her own doing. She could have gone back to her mother, but she was stubborn and refused to go back to her. Kensi was the one to make her life hard. Or if she was afraid of someone walking away again and leaving her in pieces. But She knew Deeks was different and he was there with him in her that thick or thin, right or wrong he would always stand with her; So she should keep the one who cares about her not to push him away and treat him miserably.
    If the Hormones is clouding her judgment and we’re gonna blame it on Kessler playing with her head and her attitude, shouldn’t she be of the field?? As it’ll be a risk on her and whoever her partner is.
    And I also wanted to ask what if the role was reversed?? As if what if Deeks was the one who couldn’t procreate would she act the same way and he would use her as a punching bag.

    8)About Leaving the job I don’t know what else to discuss or talk about once you have children you need to be quitting the job and they had a living example for it (Sam&Michelle) for Deeks he is open to quitting on the spot as for Kensi she is manipulating him and cannot believe that she is that selfish and careless to take the decision of staying. she should have prioritized her family first not the job before thinking about having or adopting a baby it all reminds of the whole wedding conversations (the table cloth, the dance, the cake) but they didn’t talk about whether it will be a big or small wedding who would they invite to. So I think before they take the leap and adopt a child shouldn’t’ they set and discuss how their life will be first??

    9)And last but not least on Kensi. Actually, I envy Kensi at least she has some great arch stories that had been told over the years she has got the revenge arch, and to justify her pregnancy they gave us 2 amazing arch Afghanistan& the back injury. And now she is dealing not only with one arch but two the Kessler and being pregnant. Something I cannot say for Deeks the only arch that gave him was the torture and IA investigation which they never completed even to justify the lack of his appearance due to parenthood or taking some time off was being handled terribly, like in seasons 9,11, 12. Plus she’s the support, respect, and the trust to do her job from her team something I can’t say for Deeks.

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    • Yeah, I find wikiDeeks addictive, but I guess there are worse things to be addicted to. I find your take on Kensi fascinating, and I can’t find anything to disagree with. I have always blown hot and cold with Kensi. To start with I really didn’t like her at all, simply because she was just too nasty to Deeks, always had to put him down. Not that she was the only one of course. I did warm to her a little in ‘Internal Affairs’. I liked her blind faith that Deeks was innocent and her fight for his freedom. I felt a little uneasy that he really did kill Boyle and I think we should know the whole truth by now. Her actions in Mexico when Deeks was unconscious was legendary. Apart from that I don’t really understand how she seems to have made Deeks happy. She is a complete control freak, always cutting Deeks off on the rare occasions they get to discuss anything. The episode that troubled me the most was ‘Parley’. I know Kensi was always jealous of any other woman that got near Deeks, but I couldn’t see how they could turn ‘Badass Blye’ into a clingy, pathetic woman who would let her jealousy put the operation at risk. What happened to being professional? Yes you are right, Kensi has had some great storylines and Deeks, well no not really.

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      • Nutterbutter // June 4, 2021 at 5:20 PM // Reply

        I know, Right, Sometimes when I rewatch old episodes I fast-forward to the Deeks scenes. I don’t even watch Kensi without Deeks anymore. Actually, I liked the playful side of her and the lacks of her sense of humor were enjoyable. and how she tared the lines with Deeks when they met were funny and amusing, I adored her more when she promised that she will lighten up, and Deeks will be serious. It was like they started forming the shape of their relation.

        So I can dare to say there are some traits that I like about her, as you mentioned her love and her faith in Deeks is not questionable but the way she handling things and how she treats him is beyond annoying now. They aren’t just partners flirtings with each other, they are a grown-up married couple who should show some respect and gratitude for each other. I think the development of her character is handled poorly.

        Oh, Don’t get me started on how she acted in “Parley” or “Deep Trouble”. She was like a spoiled teenage girl, fighting over her escort to prom night, not a professional agent who takes her job seriously. I don’t know why she got on the wrong foot with Talia. It wasn’t like she hang out with Deeks or made up with him. She only partnered up with him one case and he assured you that you are the only one who sees. And I don’t know if she was jealous because Deeks had an OP and didn’t tell her about it, or because he was with Monica. Sorry, but she seemed unreasonable in both situations as they didn’t Confess their love for each other and they were not exclusive yet. on the other hand in “Command & Control,” Deeks was very casual and trusty when she went undercover with the wealthy guy. The only doubt he had was on himself.

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        • Before Kensi and Deeks got together, Kensi was always pushing Deeks away. Everybody except Kensi and the showrunners knew they had a ‘thing’. She had no business being jealous of Talia, Eva, either Monica, or any other woman that looked at Deeks, but she was. They were just partners but she was miffed she wasn’t told about Deeks assignment in ‘Parley’. I would have thought Granger would have told her if she needed to know. Then she acts like a grown up woman in ‘Cancel Christmas’ when she understands why Deeks didn’t tell her about Boyle. I guess that was because she’d got her man.

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          • Nutterbutter // June 5, 2021 at 5:16 PM // Reply

            You’er absolutely right. With all the above they didn’t go official with their relationship. but in ‘Cancel Christmas’ she understood why he had to hide this from her and she was extraordinarily supportive and trustworthy like her unusual self, but this because she only knows the secrets and lies he told her comes from his protective side of her, so she doesn’t need to lie for him or compromise her career “season 8 he asked Whiting to leave her out of this when she threatened to subpoena” . Plus she told him she figured it out before his confession.
            Also, she was in his shoes when she was seeking revenge for her father and didn’t tell hin everything so maybe it’s like tit for tat.

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  16. Nutterbutter // June 3, 2021 at 7:23 PM // Reply

    This post will be about Deeks and his relations with the others, so it’ll be a long one.
    Actually, I feel like WikiDeeks made an amazing job to propose and recommend what the show’s runners should demonstrate the background of Deeks and asked justifiable questions that we need an answer to them. What amazes me they neglect our request to answer where Martin obtains His last name Deeks and they felt they need to give us his middle name instead (Martin Atticus Deeks) Even the writers felt like they couldn’t believe they named him ” Atticus” out of the sudden so the kept ECO this season to repeat his full name whether it’s necessary or not just to sell it to the audience (which hilarious and irritating in the same time).
    It’s like his Mother that came out of nowhere in season7 so they started to mention her in this season as if the emphasis will make her appears since season one. At least with Kinsey’s Mom, they addressed her absence probably making Deeks asking Kensi what we all thought at the time ” Blye, K ” that he assumed she was dead and then we get her story. Something I can’t say about Roberta which every time she makes an appearance adds to my confusion more. Did she get married once or twice? Did she get pregnant before or after her marriage? Where she’s been all these years and why she wasn’t listed as his next of kin? Why every time she communicates with her son she gets on his nerve? Was she really pissed off that he didn’t tell her about the enjoyment but didn’t care that he got shot, tortured, and hospitalized after Mexico? If She was a wreck from everything that occurred, did she give up on him and be raised by one of his relatives did he enter the system does he have any relative alive or nearby.
    I am just wondering if Deeks kept his mum out of the picture for safety reasons especially as he was undercover so much
    What about his father? Was he always drunk or something made him change? Do we know if his father was abusing him or his mother only, why his father had a gun what was his job, we know he was a drinker we have 3 different stories in season 2 alone about his surroundings o his Father (Borderline- Bounty-Personal) which one should we stick with?
    How does someone like Deeks turn out the way that he did with parents like that? And Despite all those abuses and brutal and violence he saw in his life, he still can sympathize with Kensi living in the street (it was her own choice) or being left by her father and her EX, Callen being a foster kid and does not know about his family. Deeks still like an enigma wrapped in a riddle for me.

    We all know he came from a horrible childhood and was always told he wasn’t good enough or worth anything. Part of him still and will always believe that and I think that’s why he said” he is good at blaming himself” I think that’s why he’s taken what Kensi or the team through because he feels guilty that Kensi ( trapped in the laser room or kissing her on the top of the hill, was sent Afghanistan, criticized her grilled cheese or asking her to set time frame to quite her or feeling worry about her state of mind this season as he thinks he pushed her limits by fertility treatments that’s why I think when she told him about adoption he accepted without arguing. As for the team, he felt he let his team down when he didn’t find Michelle, failed to get Callen’s trust despite all his tries to work out their relations.

    and don’t get me to start on how they treat Deeks he is always taking the offensive with him especially Callen he never supports him or encourages him even with words. Callen, always seems condescending and expresses skepticism towards Deeks he doubted him after Sidorov comes to work, he didn’t sympathize with him after Kensi departure and when Sam got accused of a murder he began to question Deeks motives when he asked for some clarification about the surroundings of the case. he even didn’t give him a chance to bond with him when Deeks asked him to go out in a guy night. when he was under investigation or when Kensi was in a coma after Sidorov he allowed Sam to carry on the job but not Deeks he asked him to leave and when Deeks loses his job both times ( Despite in the first time he was the one who asked Deeks&Kensi to follow Moseley) he never showed any empathy or support isn’t that the role of the team leader to be there for his teammates and support them even only with words and assure their fairs and take responsibility for their actions not blaming it on someone else (I remember what happened to Hidoko). I also hate the double standard of moral they have like Sam blaming Deeks for tradecraft but it appears that he forgets to applied to his family or teach it to his partner whose home is always comprised, or both of them going rogue & displaying the rules or seeking revenge from their enemies, and they always seem to justify their missteps like Sam going after Taher and torture him, Callen’s going rough to save Anna & Joelle.
    that’s why I appreciate how Deeks stays true to his values and isn’t afraid to stand up to those in authority when he’s given questionable orders and for me, it’s a very admirable and appealing quality.

    However, he has been able to see the positive things in life and he knows how it feels to be in a life or death situation. As such he tends to rely on humor to lighten the mood. He’s done it many times. He proved that he would do whatever it takes to protect Kensi and the team. Deeks is a great cop and has done this job without all the training the others have. They really are full of themselves. That’s why
    Deeks always strikes me as forgives and forgets guy. That why he never holds grudges against them. We might never know who Deeks truly is. We see parts of him here and there. That’s why we need the full version of his story

    Just a side note that drives me crazy could you please explain why they took Deeks’ motorcycle again. And allowing Fatima to ride one wasn’t there some rule about agents should be safe? or it was for Deeks only?

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    • So, last things first, I think there are a number of theories about the motorcycle issue. Some people think it was a ruse between Hetty and Kensi to keep Deeks safe. Possible but it doesn’t work for me. Not too many people care for his welfare but Hetty and Kensi might. Many people, well me, think ‘Unwritten Rule’ was just another way to beat Deeks down. Letting Fatima ride a motorcycle was one of two options. The showrunners may have forgotten about ‘Unwritten Rule’
      but I don’t think so. I think they just did it to wind us up. They did wind us up, big time. Your guess is as good as mine. I still don’t think it was fair.

      Moving on. I agree wikiDeeks has done a brilliant job in defence of our boy and it is a shame our questions haven’t really been addressed by TPTB. You make so many excellent points and ask so many good questions I couldn’t possibly answer them all. Actually I can’t answer very many. Sometimes it is easy to overthink situations, I do it all the time. Take the issue of Roberta, I think my view is different from everybody else. I don’t think I’m very different from her, mad as a box of frogs, but she means well. I think Deeks might keep her at arms length, not because of any rift but because he doesn’t want her to worry. He doesn’t want her to take over either. Mothers embarrass their sons, it what they do. Usually when they are young but Roberta is unusual. Your view of Roberta is as valid as anybody else’s until they choose to tell us different. I do think she was pregnant before she married Deeks father, but what do I know.

      Deeks’ relationship with the team is another issue. I’m not sure the team is much of a team. I think they are two pairs, three pairs now with Fatima and Rowntree. When they all work together it’s great, how it should be, but that doesn’t happen all that often. Sam and Callen have no problem keeping Kensi and Deeks in the dark. I don’t think Deeks has ever been truly accepted, even now that he’s not a cop. You talk about double standards, my goodness there are way too many to mention. You are right, Deeks does forgive and forget, he never seems to hold a grudge, it seems we do it for him. I don’t think I can do justice to all your comments, I suppose I could have just said I agree,

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  17. Nutterbutter // June 5, 2021 at 5:41 PM // Reply

    OMG, First the motorcycle. You made me crack up that the TPTB only doing this to get under our skin. You can say that again.
    About Roberta, I’ve got the impression he grew up with his mother, but maybe Roberta wasn’t that greatest, but she tried and Deeks appreciated it and in return tried to take care of her or it comes from his feeling of guilt and put the blame on himself all time. but Your guess is as good as mine.
    I believe that everyone sees things differently and that’s why these discussions are so much fun. We all see and interoperate the characters through the lens of our own lives and experiences.
    I’m glad we’er still on the same page and I really appreciate your opinion and your take on the subjects, it really gives me a far-sighted look for the whole show

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    • Actually I thought you were the one with the ideas and the insight. You certainly point out things I hadn’t noticed or had forgotten. Please keep it up, I really enjoy your thoughts.

      Now I’m going to take a brave pill (I loved that idea) and step way out of line. Let’s hear it for Roberta Deeks. I think most people like her, but hold her responsible for what happened to Deeks as a child. She was his mother and she should have protected him. His father was the villain of the piece in my eyes, but as has been said so often, we don’t know the whole story. I think Roberta is a remarkable woman. She is a teenager in a mature woman’s body, I can identify with that. She is out there living her life, making mistakes and meeting unsuitable men. I think it was Season 9, forget the episode, Deeks and Kensi were in a diner with Roberta and Guy. Roberta told Kensi not to wait till she was married to get pregnant, she hadn’t. Roberta would have been pregnant in the 1970’s, it was a different world then. Having a baby out of wedlock was still a big deal in those days. It happened a lot, by accident not design. It was a bold move, some would say reckless. She feels guilt for not protecting Deeks, as she should, but I think she tried her best to make things right. She lives with her mistakes and doesn’t dwell on them. The trauma of Deeks having to shoot his father must have taken it’s toll on both of them. She doesn’t see herself as a victim, that seems to be a Deeks family trait. I’m not trying to make her out to be some sort of heroine, she is flawed, opinionated and sharp tongued, but she is upbeat and doing her best. In a show full of superheroes she is a breath of fresh air.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Finally found the time to reply, lol! See my comments below!

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      • Nutterbutter // June 6, 2021 at 5:30 PM // Reply

        Thanks so much! it is a pleasure to express and exchange theories, opinions, and feelings freely and openly.
        I loved your take and your accuracy about his childhood. Honestly, I’ve never seen it from that perspective before, so thank you for clearing that out.

        What we learned from his mother is that she was weak and not able to protect herself and her son from that man. She continues to have guilt about what had happened and Deeks would be sent to juvenile until a decision about charges because he mentioned before that his record was sealed in the IA episode. They maybe lived in low income following the shooting or they always had a low standard of living which could explain why he worked as an exotic dancer to pay for his college. As he mentioned many times before he enjoyed spending Christmas time with his mother and they always had traditions of decorating their house and drinking hot chocolate or something else which mean she was there when he was growing up, so what happens then, why they grow apart if they were that tight, Could that just happen when she deiced to carry on with her life and wanted to tie the knot for the second time? That’s why he always afraid when she tells him she wants to introduce him to one of her boyfriends (Guy or the one who made pasta aglio e olio) because he fairs not only from her rushed and impulsive decisions but also losing her for another husband or boyfriend who could take her away from him again. But Your guess is as good as mine. What I’m sure about is that Deek is a wounded character and still carries a lot of guilt overshooting his father and Boyle and His protection of women stems from him protecting his mother from his father as childhood trauma.

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    • Finally found the time to reply, lol! See my comments below!

      Like

  18. I’m responding to both Patricia and Nutterbutter in one comment in an effort to catch up a bit, lol!

    Perhaps in contrast to all my previous comments, I do love Kensi. I just find the Kensi she used to be hard to reconciliate with the Kensi she became. The outer appearance, sorry, did not help, IMO. The short hair, the heavy make up, the weight loss, wardrobe – specifically those shoes – she looks older than Deeks at this point. It took away her vulnerability IMO, which she really desperately needs with season’s 12’s storyline. Where she seemed to be growing, she regressed specifically and majorly during season 12.

    With regards to her jealousy, in season 7, I think she did have the right (not the need) to be jealous; she and Deeks had been together since season 5 (they finally slept together right before she was shipped off to Afghanistan). She already got her man. There was no actually need to be jealous though, there was never anybody else for Deeks from the minute he saw her. I think her own insecurities she so desperately tries to hide and fierce independence she so desperately tries to convey got away from her.

    Kensi definitely has a lot of things to be proud of, however, she has learned nothing from her father when it comes to empathy, moral support, or loyalty to the person who loves her the most. I have to say that Deeks is partially to blame because he enables her behavior constantly as opposed to calling her out on it.

    Patricia mentioned how she does not see how Kensi makes Deeks happy. He does seem to be the one (Mexico episodes and his torture being the exception) always standing by her side (paralysis, kidnapping, Afghanistan, Kessler) and coming up with things to make her happy; having her father’s medal restored, arranging a weekend with Kat, Mindy, Mandy, Tiffanie and Tiffany, letting her have the wedding of HER dreams, not to mention the baby storyline. Meanwhile, she does not seem to do a whole lot in return.

    She did seem supportive during the IA investigation and visited him in jail, tongue slipping him the ear comm. The only time they French kissed, smh! I think the big problem lies with the show’s writers and showrunner and, yes again, humongous lack of intimacy (please hire an intimacy coordinator!). If you compare Deeks and Kensi to Upstead and Stellaride, for instance, there have been plenty of very intimate and passionate love scenes (during Covid shots) while Deeks and Kensi have not even properly kissed since the wedding episode.

    Another problem to that effect, and this is just my opinion, is that the closeness between the two families IRL, has just gotten to the point where it has become awkward for them as actors. Since the writers have completely dropped the ball on this issue since the wedding episode, both ECO and DR have now settled into playing platonic roommates and perhaps cannot pull of playing any passionate scenes between them anymore.

    I don’t think Kensi had a horrible childhood at all. Her childhood seemed to have been pretty perfect up until her father died when she was 15. A lot of teens lose a parent at that age. Why she felt the need to live on the streets of Los Angeles was never explained. Unless you are horrendously abused at home, it is a pretty drastic decision, and from the reunion between her and her mother that did not seemed to have been the case.

    The writers allowed Kensi to grow but then, as I said before, let her regress into her old habits pretty quickly by writing Deeks as someone who enables her all the time. He is allowing this behavior to continue, taking one pot-shot after the other, without addressing it once. At times, he almost seems afraid to address anything, come near her, or even so much as touch her. I will say it again, this would never be acceptable if the roles were reversed and she was the one pushed into this type of relationship. Everybody would be up in arms about female abuse.

    The pregnancy story line is a show killer, IMO. It has always been the one deal breaker for Deeks. We all know that the minute she gets pregnant, she will be put on desk duty and that will be the end of Densi together in the field. We also know that, should they adopt, Deeks will not stay, nor will he allow Kensi to stay, in the jobs they currently have. So where does that leave them on the show? The only way out of this is a series finale with both of them having secured safer jobs and Kensi finally pregnant.

    And yes, for all of that, as Deeks has asked so so so many times, you need a solid plan in place (anybody remember the episode where they were discussing Kensi wanting a bigger place with an extra room and Deeks finding a Mommy & Me magazine in her bag at work…? Hmmmm….).

    I want to quickly address The Silo and the grilled cheese bit here. The way Kensi stormed into the mess that morning, there was no holy way in h*ll, that argument was just about grilled cheese. But again we were left wondering. And Deeks was right on the phone call with her, she was not the only one who could have gone down that rabbit hole. Plenty of others around to do it. But she chose the job, as always. And they called her in because she dated a guy for 3 months 10 yeas ago? Over a 10 year period, there was nobody else closer to him who could have talked him off the ledge? Really?

    I am not sure if anybody involved in and with the show actually reads the Wikideeks reviews and comments. Just because you do an interview with People Magazine doesn’t mean you read the entire magazine. I know ECO supports WikiDeeks (he has mentioned them on numerous occasions on social media, etc) but if he reads everything….I have no way of knowing (Shane Brennan, btw, has had no real involvement with the show in years. He never wanted to do it in the first place, it was just an easy money maker for him).

    Either way, the season 12 episode finale was written as a series finale and – from the way the season as written – it seemed to me everybody felt this would be their last season, which makes me fear for season 13. This brings me to another point. The one and only reason the stars of the show have gotten their significant fame and fortune, and the opportunities that come with it, is solely because their viewers kept watching. Without their viewers, there would be no show. Personally, I think, we deserve better than loose ends, boring story-lines, single-minded (Russia) centric plots, characters (Fatima and Rountree) we do no want, and zero Densi time. We’ve have earned that much because everything they have earned and are very happily living off of, is because we have kept watching their show.

    I am not sure of Kilbride as a regular. I loved him in the beginning, but the cranky old man style is starting to get on my nerves. I had the same feeling about Granger.

    It does seem that Deeks was brought in as “comic relief” or a “punching bag”. Everybody though that the episode in which Deeks was made to be Kirkin’s model and dress in pink was hilarious, but I was horrified at the humiliation he once again had to suffer while Kensi sat in a corner giggling. Had it been Sam, it would have been funny, but the list of it always being Deeks is as long as El Chapo’s rap sheet, I thought it was the beginning of the end. I mean, as if the horrendous FLETC storyline was not bad enough.

    The whole motorcycle thing with Fatima is firing back big time on social media. Not only because people really just cannot stand her, do not find her credible (she looks like a 12 year old boy who couldn’t tackle a toddler), and her acting is subpar to say the least, but because it has always been a big rule that nobody is allowed to ride a motorcycle and Hetty taking Deeks’ away was made to be a huge deal. It does to me seem that a) the writers have forgotten most of what they have written and b) they just don’t care anymore.

    I also agree that there isn’t much of a team anymore. I am not sure if there ever was with Deeks included. From the beginning Sam and Callen treated him as an outsider and this only got worse when Fatima and Rountree joined, both of whom wo have done absolutely nothing to earn the right to be called part of the team or receive treatment accordingly. Deeks is still being treated as the punch bag, the class clown, the incompetent one, and my guess is this will never change. No matter how many times he puts his life on the line, Sam and Callen will never see him as their equal. If, after 11 years, you are threatening someone to come rip our your ear-wigs with a par of pliers, you crossed the line in my eyes. And Kensi should have, quite frankly, told both of them off in defense of her husband, right there and then. She has no problem telling Deeks off time and again.

    The double standard with which Sam and Callen operate has always been clear. It think a lot of these issues have come floating to the surface due to pandemic binge watching. When you watch a show over a period of 11 years, a lot of things slip by. When you binge watch the entire 11 years in a matter of months, all those things all of a sudden become clear as water.
    Nobody seems to wonder (or care?) about Deeks’ state of mind or his need for support in any way, shape or form over the years. Remember he had to walk out of that building by himself with a cardboard box after 11 years. Remember nobody supported him during or after FLETC. Nobody could have edited out Fatima and Rountree and put in some scenes of Sam and Callen supporting Deeks? Even his own mother requires more support than giving it. Probably stems from the fact that his father was a mean drunk and, even as a little boy, he felt the need to protect his mom. Yes, they choose a great actress to play her, but I’m sorry, I cannot get past the fact he had to shoot his father at age 11 and his mother (no matter what the time or year) did nothing to prevent this.

    We know nothing of what happened to Deeks after that incident, my guess is foster care like Callen. And mama Deeks was suddenly “invented” years into the show.

    I know there are a lot of Callen fans, but I am quite tired of the Callen’s backstory line. It’s boring and I really do not care. He was never my favorite and he has not been likeable for years. It has been shoved down our throats for too long without actually tying up or at least explaining all the bread crumb flash backs. Then there was his father (magnificently played by Daniel J. Travanti), his sister, the never-ending story of Joelle, Anna and Katya, and the Russia connection. Enough already.

    I was actually more surprised the show got renewed than that it was for only 18 episodes. There are rumors floating around that both ECO and DR have asked for less screen time because their want to focus on other projects. Projects they are in a position to focus on because we, the viewers, have kept them in business all these years. It is simply wrong, IMO, to give us nothing (and season 12 was exactly that) in return. And does that mean more Fatima and Rountree? DVR and fast forwarding for me.

    With the way things are going, I hope they actually make it to 18. They keep the show on Sunday night because right now they have zero competition. Putting it on Wednesday or Thursday, they would never survive against SVU, Chicago PD, Chicago Med, FBI, or even Young Sheldon for that matter. Fatima and Rountree, no matter what anybody says, are being forced on us, while Deeks and Kensi, no matter how many people beg, seem to fade away. It’s wrong on so many levels.

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    • I agree with just about all of this, especially the comments about Roberta. Sorry, but I have never been a fan of hers and she does come across as either constantly needy or judgement of Deeks. Which might explain why she and Kensi get along so well.

      I also agree that Kensi has shifted, almost like Hetty has over the years. And in both cases the shift has been for the worse. People like to talk about how good Kensi was with Deeks in Mexico (true enough), but always seem to discount how he stuck by her during her rehab even when (or especially when) she was treating him like crap.

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      • I never discounted all Deeks has done for Kensi and how he has always stood by her, no matter how she treated him, and she was pretty bad to him during her rehab after her paralysis.

        I also agree with Hetty withholding information (I cannot forgive her for sending Kensi into Afghanistan knowing who the White Ghost was and knowing Kensi would miss the shot on purpose). The physical danger she put her in (and subsequently the entire team) and the emotional PTSD she caused are unforgiveable. Her constant and inexplicable disappearances leaving the team hanging without any leadership or clue are inexcusable as well.

        Both of the above would never be tolerated/allowed IRL (she’d probably end up being strapped of all her credentials for the Afghanistan situation alone). She is a beloved character because Linda Hunt plays her so well, but her actions as said character…….

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      • I’ve never been Kensi’s biggest fan, and she hasn’t improved with age. She certainly gets on better with Roberta than her own mother, I guess it happens, not reading anything into it. I readily talk about Kensi’s actions with Deeks in Mexico, along with her support in ‘Internal Affairs’, partly because they made good viewing. The main reason is that it’s difficult to think of other occasions she helped him. Both times her actions were prompted by the fear of losing him. Her struggles in Mexico didn’t come close to Deeks’ long term struggle helping her back to full health. More episodes that made good viewing. I hate to think what would happen if the roles were reversed.

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  19. Nutterbutter // June 6, 2021 at 9:17 PM // Reply

    First of let me express my joy to see you were able to take the time to share your view of the topic and hope everything went well.
    Wow, what a great recap. I thoroughly enjoyed it but let me state first the common points that you & I agree with and that doesn’t mean I disagree with anything you’ve mentioned on the contrary but maybe we see it from another perspective.

    The newbies need to reduce their time I’m100% agree with you they are taking so much of the screen time and add nothing and they have 0 chemistry. But I can’t say they need to go as from where I see they started to grow on some of the audience. (IMO Big Miss)

    I’m tired of Callen’s story and his love triangle and the whole Russian connections, but I can’t prevent the Callen’s fans from that as we are as Deeks fans still suffering from the lack of his stories (BUT ALL I’M ASKING IS EQUAL OPPORTUNITY AND THE SAME SCREENTIME FOR EACH CHARACTER SO THEY CAN EXPLORE THEIR BACKGROUND FAIRLY WITHOUT NEGLECTING SOMEONE’S FANS ON THE ACCOUNT OF THE OTHERS).

    100% agree that Kensi hadn’t had a horrible childhood at all. At least she felt loved by both her parents till she was a teenager and that helped to build her character and everything she had suffered from at an early age was by her own choice, something I can’t say for both Deeks & Callen who have a horrible childhood.

    You were spot on explaining how Deeks made Kensi happy. And you said it well ” she does not seem to do a whole lot in return ” and that’s true because he stated many times before that the only thing that matters is being with her and see her smile, and he’s happy when she’s happy.

    About The pregnancy storyline as you said it’ll be okay if one or both of them will be leaving the show or become recurring characters. They really ruined their relation at this early stage of their life together. Before thing about having a baby maybe they need to know when they’ll actually have the job, what would they do instead of NCIS, would they afford to buy a new house and have a baby at the same time? I know it’s the natural progress of any relationship, but could build it down and play it slow or postpone it for later seasons. they made me feel the pressure and tension like we’re in a race with time and if they didn’t have a baby right now, all hell will break loose. Especially the way they write Kensi this year she really seemed like she is on a mission or has a task and needs to complete it. she was having her own pity party. Like she was the only one affected by the whole drama that happened, and Deeks He had thought he was helping her But Nothing he did or said seemed to be the right thing. He felt her pulling away from him and He hates to see her given up and of course, He always blames himself for anything that happened to her.

    I also Agree that Deeks is stronger than he gives himself credit for both physically or emotionally. Whether with Kensi ( as it takes a very strong person to support you and comfort and assure you not only physically but emotionally in your time of needs when the said person is in his darkest time and on the edge to break) or with the team (He usually just let their comments roll off his back and give as good as he got, and when he stands for what he believes or fight for even or and when he became their voice of reason to stop them from crossing the line, even though he crossed them more than once, shows how he regrets what he did and fair of the other feeling the same guilt he has so he try to prevent them from the self-conscience that eating him alive. or suffering through brutal torture to protect Michelle)

    We’re almost on the same page here with the rest, The motorcycle, The Silo episode (Although it’s one of my favorite episode ever), the comic relief, and The double standards issue, but there are a few things maybe I interpreted differently, but that doesn’t mean we are on cross-purposes, on the contrary, so bear me with and hold your fire (LOL)

    To be honest, I’ve never given it much of a thought about the characters appearances or their hair cuts or cloths, because I consider it something personal and up to their preferences and sometimes they go for a particular look due to other projects, so no one could know, with that said I’ll have you know that l liked Kensi when she had a short hair in previous seasons but not this one she really looked old.

    IMO, her jealousy shouldn’t exist period. Not before and particularly not after they became official and that is not only because he has never done anything to doubt him or lose her trust. plus she seems proud that she’s hot and loved when people always said that he is out of her league. She was even jealous of him traveling to Vegas with the model but the poor thing (Deeks) was afraid of her mockery and didn’t want to tell her the truth (Sorry, I’m in S04). On the other hand, she didn’t feel ashamed when she flirted with Dinozzo preferred to spend time with Sullivan rather than her “Fiancée” who proposed 3 times. And Deeks was very supportive whether on a personal level when her Ex came back or career level when she went undercover flirting with other men.

    I love the intimate and passionate scenes between the two and sign me in when and where it happens, but don’t get me wrong here or classify me as platonic or virgin (god knows I’m not) but I don’t care if they never kissed or made love on screen as long as I felt truly they still love each other dearly and nothing would take them apart. And this can be shown in their talks and their small hugs (ECO & DR are very good with emotional scenes). As much as I loved their emotional scenes this season, but sometimes it felt forced because it always happened after an argument or disagreement it’s like they were never on the same page (She push him and dish out her anger constantly and he feels guilty and hugs her ) and maybe it’s just me. Grr, I miss their old scenes.

    The progress of the characters were only showed with Deeks, and maybe I’m biased, Sam is still the loyal navy seal who can out James bond himself, and a family man. Callen still the lone wolf who is still looking for answers about his childhood (WHAT ELSE TO FIND OUT, YOU ARE IN the 40s OR 50s NOW, SO FORGET ABOUT THE PAST AND LIVE YOUR life YOU KNOW ENOUGH). I think it’s great how Kensi changed over the years now that she and Deeks are together. It’s basically the only thing that shows us her evolution IMO.
    I feel that Deeks’ development over the course of the show has been realistic. He showed how wounded and flawed his character is and how he hides behind his humor and his jocks

    Deeks is the only one who ever shows regret, whose conscience is put on such a clear view for us to see. I think he’s especially aware because he knows exactly where his dark side comes from, and he’s fought against it his whole life. The showrunners rarely show the toll the job takes on.
    Jessie, K

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  20. Still trying to take in all the excellent points from M, Nutterbutter, RobbieC, well everybody. It would be scary if we all totally agreed. I seem to be the only member of the Roberta Deeks fanclub, that’s okay. I like her because she has more personality than Fatima and Anna put together. I’m trying to keep an open mind on Fatima and you people aren’t helping, lol. Yes she is judgemental of Deeks, but tell me who in NCIS-land isn’t. She is judgemental of most people, and has a great supply of one-liners. That said I’m not sure I would want to spend too much time in her company. Her history is vague. In ‘Borderline’ Season 2, Deeks talks about his mother having a laminated cutting from the Encino Times on her fridge. Just fourteen episodes later in ‘Personal’, Kensi doesn’t think to ask about his mother when the question of Next of Kin crops up. I think they airbrushed her out, so we could learn about Deeks’ father. Ten years later we haven’t learnt anymore. I’ve never seen her as particularly needy, but I wouldn’t would I? Nutterbutter mentions Deeks talking about his mother always making Christmas special and in ‘Internal Affairs’ Roberta says “I don’t know how but I raised a good one”. So I think she was there when Deeks was young, we don’t know when or why she moved away. We’ll probably never know. Oh dear, I wasn’t going to talk about Roberta too much.

    I think a lot of the issues we’re talking about are due to balance in the show, or lack of it. In the wedding episode, there was the emotional scene when Deeks read Kensi’s letter. It balanced the jollity of the rest of the episode. In Season 12 we had some awesomely emotional scenes from Deeks/ECO, like when he walked out with his box, but there was no gesture of kindness or anything to balance it. As has been mentioned Deeks has done numerous acts of kindness for Kensi, always been there for her. She has done nothing for him. Nutterbutter asks for equality of screentime for all the characters. A good point. The balance of the storylines is heavily in Callens favour, with a little bit of Sam. It wouldn’t be so bad if the stories were new. Balance it out, let them all tell their stories. From the early days as comic relief, Deeks has been written as second best, even though he is nothing of the sort. In many ways he is the best of the bunch. Give them all a turn at being the butt of the jokes. Was it last season they poked fun at Sam’s fear of clowns? They all wore red noses, I liked that. The talk of intimate scenes, not so bothered, but a Densi argument or discussion should be balanced with a show of affection. All too often the show of affection only comes from Deeks. It’s about making more satisfying viewing. Yes we need our booms and bangs, a bit of excitement, balanced with interaction of the team.

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    • Nutterbutter // June 7, 2021 at 4:37 PM // Reply

      Well said, Patricia Abbott. I couldn’t agree anymore.
      I feel like we should be rewarded or something (the TPTB should give us what we desire) after spending all this time just to pour our feelings out and trade thoughts and poke our eyes out on what we expecting and want to see on our beloved show and analyzing but, to be honest, it’s very therapeutic (LOL)

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  21. tessmmmax // June 9, 2021 at 7:45 AM // Reply

    Thanks for the great reviews as always, Karen. And thank you so much for supporting our guy during the last season. The image of the article is nice!

    It’s been a while since I commented here. Apparently I missed the party, but I was too busy studying at university. Unfortunately I haven’t watched the full episode of LA for a while so if the comment is off the mark, just ignore it. I saw some clips related to Deeks. Kiss Kensi’s head in the armory, a picnic on the sea. Now He seems to have finally got a brief break. There is no particular satisfaction. I was just relieved that the terrible season ended early. I was disappointed with the plot, but thank you to all the actors and the film crew. If the comfortable scene like this episode had continued, I wouldn’t have thought like this. Is shooting difficult unlike usual? Yes I know, many workers (and the unemployed they cruelly ridiculed!) And students were all busy and nervous. I hate their bullying (not humor) and flawed human dramas. They have no doubt insulting “middle-aged inferior beings (only in their dreams)” while encouraging fertility couples. Everyone gets old. Are there any parents who are horrified that their child will be treated like him 40 years later? Who cares when he is kidnapped? Such a powerful message must have cheered up those who wanted children. Isn’t it a moral argument related to pregnancy? That’s why I hate this show’s fake “This is Us”. They are thinking virtually nothing. Hypocrite. They have to read Renee’s picture book aloud 100 times.

    Neric’s happy departure is as much the only thing I should see this season for me as Deeks-Kirkin’s bond. I miss them, but they are happy. It’s a good one. Neric and Densi are my favorite quartet. Why didn’t they take Densi too? They could have set up a safe and rational security company with four people. Do they have the opportunity to meditate in a circle again? I’m a bit bittersweet when I wonder if Densi (mainly Deeks) will be respected like this couple.

    Now I don’t know if I want one of LA’s Episode “Deeks. M”. I want a spin-off “Young Marty”. Fortunately, the early writers and ECO clearly presented us with a some of elements that made us aware of him. Style by pillow, baby blues, surfer look, some habits and characteristic speaking styles, disguise-smelling clothes and black jackets. Enough elements to develop a detective character on TV. Please laugh, but I was only semi-serious!

    Deeks is probably the most mature character in the show, but I’m not sure if it’s proud or glad. He is always forced to be more forgiving than the eldest, even though other characters are allowed not to grow at all, and no matter how much he continues to prove himself, then he is treated as a newcomer or less. I’m tired of the senior agent’s waiver of responsibility and the lack of guidance and improvement in moral harassment. Job title and responsibility are one set. Or is this normal in the CBS work environment? I don’t impress anyone who saves the world but then doesn’t loyalty or respect his colleagues.

    I’m sorry for all the complaint. I don’t know if I’ll be back next season but I like watching the discussion here and I never get tired of Him. I’m just fantasizing while I’m looking forward to the Hawaii cast as I’m not sure if TPTB will use the ideas of Kolcheeks and Kirkin Empire next season.

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    • Always great to hear your thoughts Tessmmax, never too late to join in. Don’t worry about commenting on episodes you haven’t seen, I do it all the time. Whether I should or not is another matter. I found your point on ‘ageism’ interesting, Karen has mentioned it several times. I’m sure I will be annoyed by it as well, a bit close to home for me. Probably why I have a soft spot for Roberta, an ordinary older woman in a world of superheroes. Certainly poking fun at people is not funny, you can laugh with people, never at them.

      I haven’t given up on ‘Deeks M’ but I would be satisfied with a run of Deeks-centric episodes, without the Russian element. Nothing wrong with Russia, but you can have too much of a good thing. I don’t think we need to worry about having too much Deeks.

      All your points are valid, interesting and I agree with just about everything. I enjoy your viewpoint so I really hope you will join us again. If not I wish you all the best with your studies.

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      • See my comment below, sorry for the delay, work and the flu!

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      • Thank you for your warm reply Patricia.
        I have an interval so I’d like to take part in it for a while, but there are already have a lot of topics and I’m still debating about the options. I’m very excited because everyone has different perspectives!

        First of all, you mentioned Roberta, so let’s start here. Patricia, you are not the only Roberta fan here. I also like Roberta (and the actor). I couldn’t accept her at first because she was suddenly brought in inconsistent with “personal”, but she herself is natural and sweet. Her interpretation of the past is that I’m close to M and Robby C, and overall opinion I may be somewhere between you and them. I’m sorry if this disappoints you. It’s a simple fact that she couldn’t protect her son because son was threatened by his father with a shotgun and then son shot him back. However, I can’t blame what happens when a woman marries a bastard, and there’s no doubt that they did their best with the cards they had after noticing their mistakes. It should be noted that it was her best and may not have been the best for her son. It’s a long story, so let’s put it aside. I mean, It’s annoying for Showrunner to push her and Deeks into a cheesy comedy framework as if his childhood abuse had never happened. Of course, she has the right to make a lot of jokes and find her next love. It helps you to recover when you make a mistake in your life. But am I the only one who thinks she (and actor) performed best in Season 10 parent-child dance? Tony’s father was a neglect man, but he was assigned several episodes around his background and was able to excuse ​to his son for what he was doing so far and then he had the opportunity to modify his life. It is just unfair that domestic violence victim Roberta is not given such an opportunity and is only given the role of an embarrassing mother.

        Apart from that, I also want more background stories for Deeks, you know? I’m also intrigued by Robby C’s idea that someone helped with Deeks’ personality development. I like the idea of ​​someone like Granger, but I also like Lt.Bates. I tend to be attached to the characters who support Deeks’s back regardless of the team. For example, Kensi in “internal affairs”, Bates, Kirkin, Hetty before Deeks joined the team. Bates recognized Deeks’s abilities even before he became a liaison. And he also knew that Deeks didn’t fit into the police “tight” unit. The fact is that Deeks doesn’t fit because he doesn’t allow injustice, and Bates trusted him. Deeks colleagues Quinn and Bates were competing with the same lover. Quinn was also one of the characters who experienced a difficult childhood, and he was hired by a weapons merchant in a situation of no choice. It’s a little off topic, but I’m curious about him after “internal affairs”. Anyway, The earliest Bates, written by Dave Kalstein, were intelligent, cynic and a little sexy. It’s a pity that they removed his intellectual personality and changed him like a drunken father from Season 9.

        It’s getting a little longer, but I’ll continue. As you say, looking down at people is not fun. In particular, it’s nonsense that the boss just criticizes or laughs at his subordinates without giving proper guidance. Gibbs quit head slap long ago, but LA still seems to believe that ridiculing Deeks is humorous. It’s a shame for the show if it’s the taste that their main audience prefers. I don’t blame repetition or boring plots. I know it’s a contradiction because I once complained that the baby story wasn’t creative. But after a lot of thought, I found that the main unacceptable factor was the many ethical contradictions in the overall development. I understand that it is difficult to think of new and interesting stories. That’s fine, because I sometimes want to see classic stories over and over again. It’s most shameful to try to make someone laugh with typical bullying expressions when you run out of ideas. It depends as easily as it depends on alcohol. I wonder if I’m just avoiding it, I can’t even think of which shows are doing the same thing in recent years. I’m not only disappointed to see such a shallow depiction in the show. At the same time, I know the limits of justice they can express, and it will feel a bit bombastic and superficial when they make moral claims at the show. Maybe this show was originally devised in a show featuring two macho(Sorry not sorry but I’m not attracted in it) and explosives, and I’m too demanding about their lack of passion for ethics. Shane may have been for money, but what he wanted to try with Deeks was probably correct except what Deeks said about Sam’s skin in the early episode. Early on, he supplemented all the elements that the mothership had and LA didn’t. It’s hard to change my mind that he’s the best of the show and a game changer, even if they find out how to deal with him or remove him in the future.

        It’s a little unrelated topic, so I’m glad that the shooting of Season 2 of “WOKE” has started. Season 1 felt déjà vu and wasn’t a masterpiece, but there were some clever and new ones. (For reference, my favorite for this kind of show is “Dietland”) It wasn’t too dark, it was witty and it was fun overall. Comfortable character with flaws, natural communication, calm expression of female characters, a good balance of humor and admonition. Unless you’re only interested in crime shows, you won’t regret watching it once. There is still time before the LA season comes back, and the show is currently only 8 episodes.

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        • I’m happy to see your comments again. It doesn’t matter if you don’t agree with me, it wouldn’t be a discussion if we all had the same views. It would be boring too. I do like your points on Roberta. There is no question she should have protected her son, but for whatever reason she didn’t. That is something she will regret forever, and rightly so. I seem to be alone thinking Deeks father should take the blame, he was waving the shotgun when Deeks shot him. Actually Deeks blames him too. I like the idea of giving Roberta a chance to redeem herself. I hadn’t thought of the similarity with DiNozzo Snr, those two would probably get on well.

          Background stories for Deeks. Yes please, they have plenty of choice. We’ve talked about childhood issues. They made him a lawyer, but we didn’t get any ‘lawyer Deeks’ till ‘Pro Se’ surely there are plenty of stories there. Then he joined LAPD. We know a little about Boyle, but I don’t think we know the whole story. Surely lots of tales to be told. Callen is the man of mystery, but we know an awful lot about him.

          Yes I saw they had started filming the second season of Woke. I’ve even found out how I can watch the first season, but haven’t done it yet. I think that probably means I could have watched Season 12 of NCIS:LA, but I’m still going to save myself for the DVDs. By then I should have forgotten what everybody said, and watch them ‘fresh’.

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    • Loved hearing your thoughts!! See my comments below. Sorry for the delay. Work and the flu!

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  22. I’m starting out with Sam, of all people, lol. Haven’t said much about him actually. But someone brought up the point of him being a family man. I don’t agree that Sam was a family man or a good father for that matter. Kam was about 8-10 years old in Season 6 (ice-rink scene), so that would have made her 10-12 years old when Michelle died in Season 8. And what did Sam do? He dumped her with her older brother who was in military school at the time and still a teenager (!) so he could go live in a camper on the beach. That little girl (and Aiden) lost her mommy in the most brutal way and needed her dad more than ever. He completely abandoned her in her time of need. Deeks would never have done anything close to that.

    Also, Sam prides himself on the mantra of “once a Navy Seal, always a Navy Seal’, however, look at the way he treated the man who underwent the most horrific torture to keep his wife safe and then risked his life to bring her body home for a proper funeral (cremation). Where was that Navy Seal code then?

    I so agree that Deeks is by faaaar the strongest of them all. He never falters and never wavers, no matters how hard the blows he gets dealt. He always has his team’s back even when they do not have his. And most importantly, he is the only one with a moral compass.

    To follow up on my comment of how much he did for Kensi: Let’s not forget how Kensi treated him during her rehab after Afghanistan, while he spent week after week after week sleeping on a hospital cot and months helping her bathe, getting dressed, eat, and all other daily basic needs of living while working a full-time job. And how many nights did he hold her when she woke up screaming from nightmares after Afghanistan? And what did he get when he finally mustered up the courage to let his guard down and say “I’m really struggling here, Kensi”. He got a “there’s no crying in FLETC”. (in all fairness to Daniela Ruah, I have to state that the writers did not do her any favors by writing her this way).

    There is truth about the jealousy comment (although there has never been anybody else for Deeks for all those almost 12 years) although I can see where she might be coming from. Deep down inside she may feel undeserving of his love after her father’s death and Jack’s abandonment. I think for her this created a huge wound that never closed. At 15, she probably saw her father’s death as a form of abandonment she could not control. Jack was the one who broke off the engagement because, as she told Deeks on that roof top “all I could do was cry and I didn’t know how to be there for him”. Also an abandonment beyond her control.

    (I do struggle with the time frame of all of this, as I pointed out before. How old was she when she was engaged to be married exactly? She was 15 when she lived on the streets for a year, which would have made her 16 when returning to finish high school, then supposedly attending Cornell (grad-school?), jumped to becoming the agent afloat for an aircraft carrier (how many long-time career people were passed over for that promotion?) and joining NCIS when she was 25. Afghanistan happened in Season 5, which would have made her 30, however, she was engaged to be married to Jack 9 years before……it doesn’t really add up).

    We all heal different from trauma and we cannot devaluated someone else’s for that reason, however, in Kensi’s case, it seems to have been taken to the extreme, specifically since she has had Deeks’ absolute and unconditional support for 12 years. If you do not heal from what hurt you, you will continue to bleed on those that never cut you, and she continues to bleed on Deeks when he has dried the blood of her wounds too many times to count.

    I think that those who were raised on love see things differently than those who were raised on survival. However, in this case, the complete opposite appears to have happened. I think Kensi was raised on love and Deeks on survival, yet, their views are the complete opposite of that phrase. Though the Blye, K. and Jack episodes explained a lot, it didn’t justify anything. We have not had Deeks, M yet, but at this point, I doubt it will make much of a difference. You can only do so much repairing after 12 years. I think he feels guilty about not being able to protect his mother when he was only a child when it should have been the other way around. Children will always find a way to blame themselves. He is somehow still trying to make up for that now by not finding fault in his mother and the other significant female in his life: Kensi.

    Kensi has changed over the years, but she has reverted back to her ‘old’ ways quickly and with a vengeance. That is very different than growth or evolution. That is just temporary change until you get what you want (her wedding day with Deeks) and then just going back to doing what you used to do. During rehab she told Deeks she was sorry she took al her anger and frustrations out on him. The thing is that sorry without actual change is nothing more than manipulation.

    I do not buy Deeks letting all those put-downs and humiliations just rolling off his back. Nobody can keep that up year after year. It eventually starts to eat away at you. I think it came out when he was finally removed from a situation he had accepted as his new normal and was alone at FLETC, and he started to emotionally break down. And so he reached out to the one person he loves the most, the one person he supported the most, the one person he trusts the most, and she gave him……..nothing. What other choice do you have then to not lose ‘your whole world’ as he called Kensi at the end of The Silo? You go back and give into her behavior towards him (and everybody else’s) because letting her go would be too much pain to carry.

    (Btw, look how Callen turned out after the glimpses we got from his childhood and subsequent Hetty grooming. He has zero moral compass left and these days just barks at everybody. As Sam, he – to date – thumbs his nose at Deeks; nobody taught either of them respect where respect is due; In response to the respect in the work place comment).

    I so agree with the comment “the senior agent’s waiver of responsibility and the lack of guidance and improvement in moral harassment”. Could not have said it better myself. Hetty’s constant disappearances without any explanation or guidance or notification or appointing a leader. And her total lack of teaching them respect for one another in the work place is unacceptable. This is one of the reasons I never watched the OG NCIS. The minute I saw Gibbs smack Tony in the back of the head that was it for me. Sorry, I know it’s TV, I didn’t think it was funny. I didn’t think it was funny when Hetty did it during the NICIS-LA episode either. She should have known better.

    I also agree (see my previous comments) that the show did not handle the aging of the characters well, especially Deeks. It was humiliating and demoralizing (yes, the FLETC episodes!). So if you are in your late 30s or early 40s, you are basically rendered useless in your job, you have no savings, your investment crumbles (wth is the bar??), you can’t afford a house, and everybody walks around angry and with a chip on their shoulder while your replacements walk around playing cowboys and Indians (Fatima and Rountree) right in front of you. Naw.

    More balance in the show is an excellent point. It doesn’t all have to be things blowing up in LA (which never make the news and apparently no neighbors ever report, lol) nor all soap opera. But Densi has become the heart of the show and – here is my pet peeve again – for crying out loud, stop the platonic room mate scenes!!! We actually have never had a passionate Densi love scene, but the last 2-3 seasons have been truly amiss. Compare this to the love scenes in Chicago PD and Chicago Fire during the pandemic. I think the closeness between ECO and DR in real life has made it awkward, however, they do proclaim constantly they are professional actors, so they should therefor be able to pull it off.

    And yes, I have said numerous times, let Deeks initiate the PDA for once. There needs to be a major balance shift there. Someone on social media said “Deeks is totally whipped”. Well, I say it is time for Kensi needs to drop the leash!

    I do think both ECO and DR have it in them as actors to pull off way heavier material than they have been given the last few seasons. As I said before, the writers started dropping the ball in season 9.

    With regards to personal appearances and choices, I stand by my earlier comments, sooooryyyy! Love the cleaned-up Deeks, but want the sweet vulnerable Kensi back. A wig and better hair/make-up/wardrobe staff!

    I still think that the pregnancy thing is a non-starter. It has always been a deal breaker for Deeks. He will not stay (nor will he allow Kensi) in this job with a child(ren). And we all know she will be placed on desk duty the minute she gets pregnant, standard procedure. She becomes a liability in the field. And that leaves Densi nowhere.

    As I side note, people on social media have said Sienna should be a series regular. IRL, that would never happen. Her deafness is just too big of a liability. Remember she did not even hear Deeks and Kensi enter her space. That easily could have been assassins. Going into the field is an absolute no and with good reason. Personally, I thought she was really boring, sorry.
    I still (and thousands on social media with me) stand by my opinion regarding Fatima and Rountree. They need to gooooo and their time needs to be given to “Densi”.

    Sadly, I think TPTB threw in the towel with the start of season 12, convinced this would be the last season and then receiving the shocker they were renewed. Again I hope they stay away from Kessler, Russia, unreliable Hetty, Deeks inheriting the Kirkin empire (please no!), angry Kensi and incompetent Deeks, but I wonder if they even care that much anymore.

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    • Wow, totally agree with everything you said. I still love kensi and deeks , not that I agree with the way she treats him a lot of times. But they are how I got invested in the show. I want to see more romance , like you said they are all actors, give us romance 💋, tired of Callen and everything Russia, Sam and family drama and both don’t care about anyone but each other. They have NEVER had deeks back, ever. Never liked roundtree and Fatima , they are always crying about something. I really don’t want to see kensi pregnant unless it’s a series ending storyline. NCIS la has to get back to the basics , keeping Los Angeles safe , and Kensi and deeks, give them some great storylines. Let’s see the house, what happened to the bar, personal stuff on them. Thank for listening

      Like

    • I disagree, with all of this.

      Kensi has never been an abusive wife. Last season, she went through fertility shots through some of the Season, which wore out her body. Add the stalker thing to that mix, it’s completely understandable why she would be extra moody. It doesn’t make her a jerk, it just means she’s human. Women prefer to go through some things on their own because they don’t think men will understand, it’s just a woman thing. Also, it’s 1000% okay for women to be angry or sad about certain things, it means they’re human!

      Deeks has always been the comic relief of this show, it’s not really going to change. Which is perfectly fine.

      There really doesn’t need to be a ‘hot’ Densi scene, in fact. I hope they don’t go there. A kiss or a hug is fine with me.

      Callen has always been a favorite of mine. I’ve always liked his compassion, and his ability to overcome so many challenges, and how he grew from a ‘lost boy’ to a guy who at one point, wanted to propose to his girlfriend! He’s a good field leader, also.

      How is Hetty unreliable? In case you never heard, but back before Season 10 was set to start filming, Linda was involved in a serious accident, which kept her on the sidelines until the wedding episode, and it still kept her partially sidelined throughout Season 11. And with last Season, there was safety concerns. All of Hetty’s disapperences are just the writers covering for Linda while she recovered. And she doesn’t want to leave, which is why Hetty hasn’t actually left for good.
      Also, she didn’t leave her team completely on their own, she left Nell temporally in charge, and she checked in when she could, which was a few times. That’s not being unreliable, that’s just dealing with filming restrictions.

      Also, Caleb and Medalion confirmed on their social media accounts that they’re staying next Season.

      And, there was no way last Season was written to be the last Season. Too many loose ends left over.

      There’s a lot to love about this show if you don’t look at all the negatives and just focus on what you love.

      (and also, I love regular NCIS, and I absolutely loved Hetty Gibbs slapping tony!)

      Like

  23. That’s the great thing about this platform. Everybody can have and share their opinions without being disrespectful. My main drawn has always been Densi and yours is Callen/Hetty. Nothing wrong with either one of us.

    I know you are a big Linda Hunt fan. I think she is a formidable actress and my comments are not against her as an actress but merely against the way they have written her. With the Covid pandemic it was her decision to not be on set, at her age and with her health problems, rightfully so. I am merely saying the writers could have done a better job with her not being there (as they could have done the many other times when she was absent from her team). Not LH’s fault. My apologies if I offended you, that was never my intention.

    Hetty never “appointed” Nell. That was just an assumption Nell and everybody else made. Nell herself was a mess of anxiety and pressure she could not handle. She could not find Hetty, did not know where anything was, nor did Hetty leave her any instructions (or any official appointment for that matter). The fact that she went from a simple techie to an Operations Manager’s position of an entire Special Projects Office team is simply impossible. Not to mention that even if Hetty wanted to, she does not have the authority to do so. These decisions are made way by people way over her paygrade.

    Here is some insight into the NCIS structure:
    The following is a listing of the rank structure found within NCIS for Special Agents
    Field agents:
    Special Agent (SA)
    Supervisory Special Agent (SSA)
    Assistant Special Agent in Charge (ASAC) / Deputy Division Chief
    Special Agent in Charge (SAC) / Division Chief
    Senior Executive Staff:
    Deputy Assistant Director (DAD)
    Assistant Director (AD)
    Executive Assistant Director (EAD)
    Deputy Director of Operations (DD-OPS) / Deputy Director of Operational Support (DD-OS)
    Director

    The operational directorates of NCIS are supervised by the Deputy Director of Operations who is the Chief Operations Officer of NCIS, responsible for criminal investigations, counterintelligence, counterterrorism, tri-service operations (Atlantic, Pacific, and Global), biometrics, technical surveillance countermeasures, behavioral science, technical services, Regional Enforcement Action Capabilities Training (REACT), polygraph services, and forensics.

    A techie like Nell is not even on the radar. There is simply no way she would jump over everybody to “head of the class”.

    Kensi taking out her anger on Deeks has been a years-long pattern. It has been going on loooong before she started IVF. This was not just “moodiness”. But my point has always been that this never would have been acceptable if the roles were reversed and he would treat (or speak to her or make fun of him) her the way she has treated him. No woman’s right organization (for starters) would stand for it.

    The Kessler storyline, meh, not buying it. He has appeared in 1 episode in 12 years, not like he has been stalking her for a decade. We haven’t even seen him stalking her this season, apart from the one single postcard. Way too far fetched. But that’s just my own opinion, lol.

    Deeks being used as comic relief wore out years ago and changed into him being Incompetent Deeks (a big thorn in the eyes of many on this platform). He’s not 25 anymore, he’s 43 and he has done plenty for this team. If the show is so insistent on Fatima and Rountree, turn them into comic relief. They bring nothing to the team or show anyway.

    In an interview, Scott Gemmill himself admitted that the final episode of the season was written and shot as a series finale, as at that point they had not received a renewal notice yet. It takes about 1-2 weeks to write an episode and 8 days to shoot it. Shooting started the first week of September and wrapped in March (the finale episodes did not air until May – many shows did re-shots after being renewed, Covid or not). And that finale itself left a huuuuge amount of loose ties that were never answered, explained or tied up.

    Everybody has their favorites on this show and the opinions all differ, which is a good thing! Imagine if we all thought the same way, how boring would that be!

    Have a great rest of your day!

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    • Do I wish Hetty was treated better these last 3 Seasons? Absolutely. Back in Seasons 5 and 8 when Dani’s baby bump had to be dealt with, the writers found ways to give us all these great Densi scenes. Yet these last 3 Seasons when dealing with Linda’s health issues, all we’ve gotten is, hardly anything if you really think of it. Basically I feel cheated, and offended by it.

      I didn’t want Nell to leave after Season 11, but I didn’t exactly want her to sit at Hetty’s desk the whole Season either!! Unfortunately, that was this Season’s ‘excuse’ for covering for Linda, which meant I had no choice but to suck it up and wait it out. And (sort of) regrettably, I wanted her to leave with Eric at the end of this season because I just wanted Hetty back.

      Up until Season 10, I was enjoying every Season of this show, but then that awful accident occurred a week before Season 10, and I knew I was in for a rough ride. The team is great as a whole, but without Hetty, it feels like something is missing every time she’s not in an episode.

      Basically, the only episodes since Season 10 I’ve really ‘enjoyed’ are: Let Fate Decide, Mother, The Circle, Aleysidiun, The Bear (sort of), If the Fates Allow, A Fait accompli, Russia Russia Russia, Imposter Syndrome and A Tale of 2 Igors. Everything else has basically been very forgettable filler.

      What I really want out of Season 13 is, just to enjoy my favorite show again for more then 1 ‘special’ episode at a time and not wish I never even seen half of the Season’s episodes.

      I’m not that interested in that stalker arc either.

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      • I can so relate with your feelings about the way Hetty (Linda Hunt) was treated and they are so true. I feel the same way about Kensi and Deeks. And I totally agree with your statement that we (viewers and actors) were given no other choice than to just suck it up. I want to feel joy after watching an episode again too and not sadness and frustration after yet another boring and forgettable filler. We deserve better than that! As viewers, we are the ones that have kept this show going, after all. No audience, no show when you think about it.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Nutterbutter // June 15, 2021 at 5:15 PM // Reply

      Okay, I’m going to post my comment as main points just to catch up with you all, so it could sound like random thoughts. So please bear with me here.

      Okay, I’m gonna buy it for now and forget how Kensi treated Deeks before. And all that anger and frustration due to Her treatment and her attempts to be pregnant. but I can’t ignore that her mood swings only show when communicating with Deeks but she is okay when she works with Sabatino, Fatima, or even Sienna. Again if The IVF affects her mood and can’t control her emotions and Kessler taunting her head shouldn’t she be out of the field!!!

      she always has to be right. They always have to do things her way. I don’t know why do we’ve to list all the things she has been through to sympathize with her and justify her actions.
      (her father died, she was abandoned by her fiancé(Who by the was suffered from PTSD, and maybe needed some space or he couldn’t handle her nagging and her personality with what he’d been through especially if she treated him like she treats Deeks now), her partner was killed, she suffers from PTSD, or the treatments affects her mood). well boohoo princess, you’re not the only one who’s suffering, and let’s face it, Deeks has got more than enough of his own demons whether it abandoned by his family, or being abused in his childhood, he was an exotic dancer to pay for his college, or being betrayed by his own coworkers in the police force, his partner or handler killed(Jess Traynor). So he has his fair share to be pissed off the world, but we don’t see him go now and then throw tantrum on her.

      When Kensi was hospitalized the only one who asked about how he was feeling really was Granger ” and how Deeks doing?”. Everyone else accepted his response that she doing okay or getting better, but no one cares enough to ask about his feeling and to think about it. Maybe Sam was there for him and he gave him advice and that what they are going through is brutal on the other hand Callen gave me the vibes he was only looking for any excuse to get rid of him from the field. like after the torture or when Kensi was sent to Afghanistan

      When he was injured in Mexico they left him with Kensi to take care of him as if it’s her burden and she is more capable of dealing with him alone than he is. At the same time when Kensi was injured and he asked to leave them they refused firmly to leave her, I don’t know how to interpret this as they don’t trust him to protect her as she does, or they care about her wellbeing more than his.

      As for the team, Shouldn’t they know by now especially his soul mates the love of his life, that He hides his insecurities behind his jokes and it’s his coping mechanism after all these years? And what bothers me the most is why Sam feels okay to panter with Callen and joke with him in the most drastic situations, but if Deeks made a joke to lighten the mood he would consider unprofessional and doesn’t take the job seriously

      Again with the double standers Deeks is not allowed to feel scared of his wife ‘life and got thrown out of OPS when Kessler threatened her, but it’s okay for Sam or Callen to go rouge and lone wolf to save an ex-girlfriend or one of the family members and ignore protocols and travel to a hostile country or cross the border to save a boy from his father just because the DEA Mossley said so.

      Again, and I know I began to sound like a broken record if they brought Deeks only for humor purposes, then why did they bother themselves and give him such a complex background that needs to be explained, why didn’t they just treat him like a marginal and superficial character like they did with Eric and Nell.

      Deeks always feels guilty and blames himself for everything whether it’s his fault or not. That’s why he always apologizes for Kensi even when she is on wrong. he takes on the fault when something happens. he withdraws from everyone to lick his wounds in private and never shows how it hurts him deeply. He never put the blame where it belongs. I said it before and I’ll say it again I am afraid that all of this drama gonna catch up with him eventually.

      They changed the main theme of the show which is agents do undercover operations due to the age element, which by the way I respect, and I get that they are not young to be sent as a model or student like they used to do before, so why don’t they also respect the same element when they treat Deeks and the jokes that made on his behalf.

      Jessie, K

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      • It will come as no surprise Jessie K that I agree with every word. I have some nonsense in my head I planned to post later, I’m unusually busy this morning, but I had to reply to you, before I forget.

        You commented on Granger being the only person to actually ask Deeks how he was doing. This was a stunning scene, first because it was so emotional and second, it wasn’t something we had seen before, totally unexpected. Nobody had cared about Deeks before, or since, come to that. Then there was the scene where Sam and Hetty tried to offer Deeks time off. Was it for Deeks or Kensi’s benefit? Shouldn’t it have been team leader Callen and Hetty making the offer?

        You mention double standards. That has always annoyed me, Callen and Sam expect trust and respect from everybody, but have no trust or respect for others, Navy SEALS excepted. Your comment on using Deeks for humour brings me to some thoughts I still plan to post later.

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        • NutterButter // June 16, 2021 at 5:23 AM // Reply

          Thank you, Patricia Abbott I am happy to hear you feel that way!, I really appreciate you taking and finding the time on your schedule to express your opinion. I’m eager to read your thoughts and your take on the subject as I value your feedback, as Your perspective is always refreshing.

          Jessie, K

          Like

        • I will respond on the weekend as well. Very valid points all around.

          Like

        • Granger and Deeks always had a special relationship. It’s one of the things I really miss.

          Like

  24. There’s a lot been going on here, so I’ll just jump in with my twopenn’orth. From the top. Hope you’re feeling better M, sure you’re not working too hard? Okay not my business, just hope you’re okay.

    About Sam, certainly he is a family man, he’s got two children. I’m on thin ice here, I shouldn’t judge I’m not a parent. I think military parents have to make a choice and sometimes family comes second. As I understand it Sam was CIA or something when he met Michelle, so can we say he was military adjacent? In his heart he is still a Navy SEAL first and father second. Having children gave him the opportunity to bully Beale into sourcing a ‘Parker Pony’ for Kam. In my view he made an unforgivable mistake choosing revenge over being with his family when Michelle was killed. I think Sam is proud of his family but I have a sneaking feeling he sees them as an inconvenience. I think he is a smug know-all, but he is the main man and there is no need to change him.

    Deeks looking after Kensi after the helicopter crash. He certainly went the extra mile. That was the only time he had any support from the team. I always felt it was because he was looking after Kensi the team felt they were helping her by proxy rather than helping him, I might be wrong. How she treated him at this time was unfair but I think it is par for the course in situations like that. Doesn’t make it right, or any easier for Deeks. Certainly Kensi didn’t do well when it was her turn to support Deeks at FLETC. I think it was bad that nobody did.

    Kathy, I have to agree with Your comments. Nobody has Deeks back. They need to give us Kensi and Deeks storylines. I think I would have preferred the baby issue to be swept under the carpet but it’s too late now. A pregnant Kensi would throw the show out of kilter, but that is what a lot of people want.

    Kensi as an abusive wife, well yeah. She was certainly abusive when Deeks was first her partner. Many of those ‘taps’ were in anger, and I think her tongue was often as sharp as her knife. That dynamic carried on into the marriage, granted she doesn’t hit him so much. It was only made worse by her fertility treatment, which might be understandable. Didn’t help Deeks, being battered from all sides. Deeks has always been written as comic relief, long may it last, he is the funniest. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be taken seriously, he is so much more than the class clown. He is the only one that never puts his own needs first, he always looks out for other people, but gets treated with contempt in return. I’d like to see that change.

    I do agree about the ‘hot’ scene, sometimes less is more. I think what is alluded to is more interesting than what is explicit, if that makes sense. More romance would be good.

    Never been a fan of Callen, I do accept he is the star of the show. He has compassion, but only shows it to a chosen few, certainly never Deeks. He has empathy for lost boys, strangely never girls that I can remember, and he cares for Sam. He has excellent ‘spycraft’ and is good undercover but as a leader I think he leaves much to be desired. He can be indecisive and really has no interest in his team, other than Sam.

    Hetty has a history of disappearing. She cleared off to Romania in Season 2 or 3. I think she went to Vietnam in Season 9, that was before her accident. I am happy that it seems she will be back in Season 13. I think it is fair enough Linda Hunt may want reduced hours, she may not be the only one. It would be nice if TPTB would treat her better and give her some proper storylines. I do understand the difficulties of filming with Covid restrictions. Hopefully that will be behind us when they start filming Season 13.

    Yes it is great that we all have different opinions, and it’s good to take on board what other people think. I do still enjoy the show, might enjoy it more if they listened to our thoughts.

    Like

  25. Permission to pontificate? I have lost track a little bit of who said what, but I think it was M who made the comment something along the lines of, ‘stop using Deeks for comic relief, use Roundtree and Fatima’. My response was, no Deeks is the funny one. I realise now we were talking about totally different things.

    I think comedy is an integral part of NCIS:LA, but as M, I think, says it’s not a comedy show. ECO is the most comedic actor of the team. Much of his comedy is an eye roll or expression you don’t notice first time round, puffing himself up when standing beside muscle bound men. That is quite besides what he can do with a script. Telling Kensi he has seen litter boxes cleaner than her house, sounded funny to me, but most of Kensi’s remarks to him sound nasty. Not what you say, but how you say it. The often quoted, using humour to diffuse tension, is Deeks/ECO’s forte. Joking, or wasting time, when your colleague is under a helicopter, not so funny. That was probably intended as black humour, but it didn’t work. That is the problem with humour, it often doesn’t work. I bang on about balance, but there is a balance to be had, between funny and serious, light and dark. How much better would the final scene of ‘Ascension’ been if they had said “good job Deeks” rather than make ‘teeth’ jokes? The banter between Sam and Callen is, in my view, just Alpha Males finding a way to work together, but sometimes amusing. Roundtree has shown signs of being funny, the jury is still out.

    The comic relief I think M meant was something else altogether. The habitual humiliation of Deeks, there is nothing funny about that whatsoever. The examples are endless. Poking fun at a colleague’s attempt to learn another language to improve their skillset, not funny. Derogatory remarks about a colleagues appearance or intelligence, not funny. Imagine the outcry if anybody suggested Fatima was stupid or dirty. That’s why they can’t use Fatima or Roundtree as comic relief. It isn’t okay to treat Deeks like that either. I think they’ve repeatedly gone for cheap laughs, that never were funny and never will be. They may have eased up a little with the insults, but it didn’t stop them getting laughs at Deeks expense at FLETC. It’s okay to laugh with people, not at them. I always felt from the outset, that they didn’t know which way to go with Deeks, and took the clown route. They never found a way back.

    Wasn’t it Ferris who described Deeks as ‘borderline submissive’? Nothing borderline about it. He takes everything thrown at him and keeps smiling. I don’t think they know how to write Deeks any different. I guess Deeks doesn’t take himself seriously so nobody else does. TPTB plunged him to the depths of despair, but it was Kensi’s welfare we were driven to be concerned for. It is fair to say we all have different levels of tolerance. Some people have a high pain threshold, some don’t. Everybody copes with stress differently. Some people whine and whinge when they haven’t really got much to complain about, mentioning no names. Other people cope with a great deal of trauma and bounce back repeatedly. Didn’t Nate say trauma is cumulative? As people have pointed out, Deeks has coped with fair more than he could realistically be expected to, with no support. A non- fictional character would has broken a long time ago. All this is interspersed with lighter episodes, no jokes at Deeks expense, but you can’t help feeling TPTB don’t see the need to take Deeks seriously.

    On a lighter note, I see the Season 12 DVDs will be out in August, yay! Even better Kensi and Deeks are on the cover, double yay! Is this a new start? Will ECO or DR be doing the ‘previously on’ in the future? Will Deeks get a decent storyline? I’m going to lie down in a darkened room now.

    Like

    • Nutterbutter // June 16, 2021 at 5:45 PM // Reply

      You’ve outdone yourself, Patricia Abbott, you did a great job finding the key to answer the dilemma about the “comic relief” matter. I couldn’t say it better myself, but you are right ECO is so funny and he has a very good and intelligent sense of humor. And I think it’s a tremendous asset in playing Deeks. IMO I can’t imagine someone else playing that role other than him. Even when the writers try to pass the lighter stuff to other characters, it appears like it’s a little bit forced and out of the line.
      He just has these brilliant one-liners and his facial expression that makes me crack. He’s the comic relief, But that’s not all he is. Most of the time when he goes goofing around, throwing jokes I simply see it as his self-protection mechanism kicking in. He uses it to deflect, and ease tension. And his timing is impeccable as he knows when to switch into serious mode and be the reliable person that he is for the team or for his partner. But there is a big difference between being funny and witty as it comes naturally and part of his personality, and being the butt of the joke, and underestimate his ability, and trivialize his feelings or his sufferings.

      Your point on the complexity of the characters and how everyone has a different level of tolerance, and their capacity to handle their pains, You went above and beyond. You were more than spot on. They really downplay his hurt and his pain to the point that it will not exist. I know we only saw the surface of the man that is Martin Deeks.

      Actually, when I read about the DVD’s release date, you popped into my head, because I know you would be thrilled hope you enjoy it.
      Jessie, K

      Like

      • Thank you Jessie K. I’m pleased you understood what I was trying to say, and agreed. Once I’d posted I thought of points I should have made, so here goes. There are writers who write Deeks very well, Frank Military springs to mind. Equally some don’t write him well at all. Jordana Lewis Jaffe for example. That’s not to say she is a bad writer, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Writing Deeks is just not JLJ’s strongpoint. Most writers are somewhere in between but so often default to a second rate Deeks. I read Samantha Chasse has signed as a staff writer, I haven’t seen ‘Imposter Syndrome’ yet but I gather she didn’t do a bad job. Perhaps there is hope.

        Then we have these amazingly emotional scenes from Deeks/ECO. Was the devastated guy carrying his box out of the bullpen the same guy as the lawyer rescuing Callen? Yes he was. The contrast is spectacular, yet they still don’t know what to do with Deeks. So often it is just the passenger. It’s easy to put Deeks through the mill, but we need resolution even if they think Deeks doesn’t. There have been a few episodes featuring Deeks, such as ‘Human Traffic’ and ‘Internal Affairs’, excellent episodes, often mentioned, treasured for their rarity value.

        Like

        • Nutterbutter // June 17, 2021 at 7:17 PM // Reply

          I have to handed to you, you really bring an excellent point here. Yeah, some writers have the ability to bring out the strength and the hidden potential of each character. IMO Chad Mazero also did an amazing job in portraying and captures the essence of Deeks’s character, I missed both David Kalstein’s, Joseph C. Wilson’s writings they did an excellent job in showing his spirit and added a new aspect to his personality. RSG used to do an outstanding job writing Densi scenes, but he recently seems retrograded from doing that and focused only on making inappropriate jokes and showing Deeks incompetent and helpless. Despite he used to combine both the funny and the competent sides of Deeks.

          It is funny that As much as I love FM writing Competent Deeks and the most emotional and intense Desni scenes, that he was brought in the first place to write for Sam’s character. And last but not least Andrew Bartels.

          For me, those writers were able to make very good use of ECO’s acting abilities. And he showed how he can easily switch from Comedy to drama in a snap. They managed to show Deeks as a multi-layered character, not just the easy-going, funny guy, and show the significance of his vulnerability, the hidden demons he carries, and his insecurities.

          Also, I’ve to agree about JLJ writing Deeks or Densi scenes, despite I love ” the unwritten role” which proves your point that she is not a bad writer but she sometimes misses the quintessence of the character. And I’m sorry but I had to add Kyle Harimoto, and Shane Brennan except “Human Traffic”. IMO it seemed they write for different characters that do not exist in the show or ignore their existence. That why I was thrilled that RSG would take over the show as he would restore the balance and create new stories but I was wrong.

          What amazes me that Deeks and Callen still don’t get along with each other; especially they have similar backgrounds more than what they have with Sam to bond (abused childhood, used to work alone with no teams or regular partners). But maybe Callen doesn’t want to share the attention with Deeks when it comes to a troubled childhood. I constantly get the feeling that he is jealous of Deeks. Particularly when Sam tries to bond with Deeks or sympathizes with him, the Same with Hetty.
          Deeks tried to get along with him but all his attempts get overlooked by Callen. Like in season 7 he wanted to bond with him but was faced with negativity and disregards, or when he tried to light the mood after his home get compromised in season 8 Callen took it as an insult till Deeks told him he was glad he was okay. And I’m only stating some examples of how bad he treats him and not going to deluge in how he treated him this season or when he gets fired or was under investigation or how many times Deeks went for the extra mile to rescue him or one of his family or offered him some relationship advice or defend him or offered him to stay at the bar.

          Which beg for another question do you think Sam or Callen know about Deeks background and how he lived his childhood and youth? or they only know what he only showed them or opened up about?
          And If they know shouldn’t they treated him differently as they know the extent of the abuse he had suffered at the hand of his father and what he did to stop him or what he did to Boyle.
          shouldn’t they know that when he jokes around he only shows one aspect of his character?
          And shouldn’t they know how strong he was to become the man he was after the childhood he had experienced and Sam wouldn’t take all that time to get to know the real him?

          Like

          • I think you have sharpened my points, thank you. You noticed things I didn’t realise I was saying. I’m blown away by your knowledge of who wrote what. I was aware that all the writers write Deeks differently, but I couldn’t put many episodes with the relevant writer.

            Your question, do Sam and Callen know about Deeks background. Good question. I’ll have to think about that. My first thought is maybe the writers don’t know about Deeks childhood. Apart from shooting his father, I’m not convinced it’s been written yet.

            Like

            • Nutterbutter // June 18, 2021 at 2:44 PM // Reply

              I think after you watch the series so many times you try to put names and give everyone’s the credit they deserved. To be Frank it is also one of the oldest and weirdest habits that I have, I memories and link my favorite and the poorest ones with the name of the writers and directors. And it’s not just NCIS La, I do it for all my favorite shows. I swear I’m good at memorizing things, I’m not an insane or stalker or obsessed fan who goes around doing ritualistic behavior or scaling a wall of the TPTB and threatening them to give us what we want and year. I think, maybe, at least not yet. (LOL)

              Like

              • I have to check all the facts I quote, and more often than not I’ve got it wrong. Well done for remembering these things. I might hold my hand up to being an obsessed fan, but I don’t scale any walls. I can still manage the stairs though.

                To answer your question, does Sam and Callen know about Deeks background? I still don’t know. They’ve worked with him for a decade. Hetty and Kensi both know about Deeks shooting his father, he has never kept it a secret. They certainly should know all about it, but I’ve never seen anything that makes me think they do. Unlike us, I really don’t think they care enough to be interested. It seems we are going to have more Callen storylines inflicted on us, I do sound jaded don’t I? I wouldn’t mind if these storylines included Deeks. There is a lot of mileage in their relationship, or non-relationship. Why is Callen so untrusting and dismissive of Deeks? Why did Deeks grow up so sweet and Callen so sour? It’s obvious the impact Callen’s childhood had on him. Deeks trauma must have had an effect on him. I hope the writers hurry up and really write Deeks backstory, then the can tell us all about it. ECO writes a mean story, I remember ‘Mother’, nobody could do Deeks story better, but could he still feature in the episode if he did?

                Like

                • Nutterbutter // June 19, 2021 at 5:14 PM // Reply

                  Your guess is as good as mine. First I had the impression that maybe Callen knows more about Deeks’ background as he was the only one in ” Human Traffic” that was familiar with Deeks as a lawyer, but nothing else indicated he knew anything about him except what was written in his file. This brings me to the earlier point we’ve been discussing here, As a team leader, and as you said they’ve been working with each other for a decade, shouldn’t he be familiar with at least the highlights and the milestones of his teammate. Like he knows about Kensi’s father and her Ex, and Sam’s family even knows he was a mathlete. The way I see it, it’s a wasted chance for the two to bond over as they have more common circumstances and surrounding to bond over rather than grow apart

                  You’ve addressed very good questions that need an illustration from the writers. But more explanation from Deeks side, I think we have pretty much idea where Callen’s behaviors are coming from. But I’m gonna quote you here as you said before ” Everybody copes differently”. Like we do when we interoperate every charterer’s actions or behaviors based on our life experiences.

                  ECO did an amazing job writing solid and well-balanced episodes that gave every character their chance to shine. I really wish he could write more episodes especially if it’s related to Deeks’s backgrounds as he really understands the essence of his character. I know he wrote another one but they didn’t shoot it due to COVID19, so there a lot of hopes on S13.

                  Like

                  • Looking at the S8E8 bullpen conversation, they know that Deeks grew up without the one’s parents’ love. I don’t know if they know that he shot his father.
                    At that time, Sam said that Kam would take an exam the same military school as Aiden the following year. In honor of Sam, at the S8 finale he left the team to care for his family. Sam certainly looked like a family-minded person in that season, as Sam was calm and leadership in everyone except Tahia’s case, probably back-calculated from the finale and linked to Densi’s storyline. I liked the scene where he first noticed Deeks’s concussion during a helicopter accident and instructed him to be near Kensi. That’s what the leader does.
                    I didn’t know where to write it because there are so many topics here and there, so the second half of the sentence contains answers to M’s doubts about Sam.
                    I’m sorry if it’s annoying.

                    Like

                  • Ivelina Plamena Georgievi // June 21, 2021 at 10:30 AM // Reply

                    More Deeks and more Densi kisses in S13!

                    Like

    • I think part of the issue might be found in the roots of NCIS LA – Miami Vice. I’ve seen it stated before that this show was intended to be something like Miami Vice, and it shows in the initial characters (black and white partners? check mysterious boss? check…and so on). But what gets missed is Vice was primarily a visual show.

      At its heart, Vice was a show based on partner teams. You had the Alpha Male team (Crockett and Tubbs), the glamour team (Trudy and Gina), and the comic relief team (Switek and Zito). And even though Vice quickly became the Don Johnson Show, echos of that construct carried through the entire series run. But Vice as envisioned by Michael Mann was primarily a visual statement. Character and plot continuity was hit or miss (to put in mildly), and once Zito’s character was written out things went downhill on many fronts. But Vice tried from time to time to have comic undertones, and the way Crockett in particular treated both Zito and Switek is very, very similar to how the rest of the team treats Deeks.

      Why bring this up? If you compare NCIS LA to either NCIS NO or Hawaii Five-0, it comes up short in the character department (with the exception of Deeks). Sam and Callen may Alpha Male spar, but it pales in comparison to Steve and Danny on Five-0 (the characters were famously sent to couples’ counseling to learn to get along). But with that, and the dynamics on NO as well, there’s a sense of what might be called family that is often conspicuously absent on NCIS LA. The Five-0 team may occasionally tease Jerry, but he’s allowed to prove himself and eventually becomes a full member of the team. And no matter how much Steve and Danny fight like an old married couple, they support each other in ways Sam and Callen really don’t. The same thing happens with Sebastian on NCIS NO…he’s something of a lab version of Beale but goes through FLETC and becomes a functional special agent (although retaining much of his character’s vulnerability). He’s occasionally teased, but Pride always has his back and supports him.

      Perhaps the best comparison is how the four shows I’ve mentioned deal with character deaths. Vice more or less ignored the murder of Larry Zito, letting him fade into show memory after maybe one or two episodes. Dom’s death is also glossed over (along with Sam’s at least partial responsibility for it), although they did use it from time to time as a plot device for Kensi (although she never seemed too attached to him when he was around). Five-0 as far as I know didn’t have main character deaths, but the ones they did write out continued to influence the actions of characters still on the show. And NCIS NO did a fantastic, multi-episode job of showing how the death of Christopher impacted the entire team…from Pride on down.

      A long ramble, I know (and I’ve toyed with a feature comparing Vice and NCIS LA), but I do think part of the issue with characters stems from the show LA used as something of a model.

      Like

  26. First and Foremost: WikiDeeks has done an excellent job of bringing the Incompetent Deeks issue into this world. We were all thinking it and somebody needed to say it.

    I’m going to try and respond to all comments all at once here, so hang in there with me, lol! I was actually not sure if I should continue leaving comments or joining the discussion anymore as it seems lately a lot of what I said or brought to people’s attention is being simply re-purposed in slightly different wording, so it makes me wonder…..why bother…..? But maybe that’s just me and my over-thinking mind……sigh….

    Sam: Having children doesn’t make you a family man (or woman) nor does buying them a ‘Parker Pony’. Michelle left her job to care for her children and keep them safe what with being a CIA agent and the consequences thereof. Sam never seemed to have bothered with his children much unless they ‘pleased’ him. His pride always got in the way. It makes me wonder if he would have been proud if Aiden would have chosen a different path other than the military. He pushes his children without any consideration for their own feelings, thoughts, and what they would want for their own future.

    Leaving little Kam (i.e. dumping her with Aiden, a teen in military school also coping with his mother’s loss) after Michelle died so he could fix up a boat was the ultimate selfish act. How did his children feel about him selling their mother’s house? The house they grew up in, the house that held their and their deceased mother’s most prized possessions? How did they feel, period? It didn’t seem to matter as much to him as fixing up an old boat.

    I don’t think he saw them necessarily as an inconvenience, but more as a prop to complete the ultimate perfect picture: A wife, a boy, a girl, and a white picket fence. Nobody is going to give Sam an extensive background. I don’t think there is a need because he was written, IMO, as a character without any depth.

    Callen: Though he has his fan base, I am not one of them. Especially in the later years. He has become crankier and crankier. He has assumed the role of leader of the team during Hetty’s absences without being appointed or asked (but inexplicably left it to Nell of all people in season 12), but instead of leading, I find he just barks at everybody, especially at Deeks. I remember when he was having a conversation with Deeks about his relationship with Kensi and he said “don’t pretend you didn’t know the risks going in”, when all Deeks was looking for was some support.

    Meanwhile, Callen has had zero consideration about calculating the risks he was exposing his team to when his father, his sister, Joelle, and Anna needed help. I do not think he is the star of the show. The show was written as a spin-off with him in the lead, but it took a Densi turn real fast (just my opinion, others may completely disagree and that’s okay!).

    I also took exception that Deeks was depicted as physically incapable (when he was most certainly not) at FLETC while Callen seemed to have gained a lot of weight and love handles.

    Nell and Eric: I will not miss them. They had no presence such as for instance, like I mentioned before, Garcia in Criminal Minds. There was zero growth and very little backstory (yeah, Nell had a sister and a sick mother at one point, but what about Eric?). And for example: In 12 years, did either one of them ever date anybody or had any relationship at all? I mean, TWELVE years! They were also hardly ever included when others went out for a bite to eat and a beer.

    Deeks and Kensi: When I mention the lack of affection between Deeks and Kensi, that is exactly what I mean. I don’t think they need steamy shower scenes, they have never been the show for that (which is why the whole Kessler “I want to have sex with you” was cringing beyond belief). However, they are the [romantic] heart of the show, people were cheering at their first kiss, jumping for joy at them moving in together, and over the moon at wedding time. Where has the love gone…? Hugs, kisses, holding hands, cuddling on the couch at night or in the morning waking up, normal things recently married couples do.

    At the risk of rehashing the same things I have been saying all along, these supposed serious life altering discussions need to stop happening in between flying bullets or during stake outs (and don’t they have their Comms in at that time, is everybody listening in??).

    Deeks, in all of season 12, seems to be afraid to go near Kensi, emotionally and physically. He needs to start being the aggressor in PDA scenes, it should not always have to come from Kensi with him waiting for a scrap of human emotion.

    (Personally, I’d much rather see Densi scenes than the increasingly annoying and boring Fatima and Rountree; bad acting, flat banter and zero chemistry).

    As I also said before: If you do not heal from what hurt you, you will continue to bleed on those who never cut you. Maybe that was not clear either, although I did explain in detail what I meant, so I won’t repeat it again cuz I don’t know anymore. It seems that whatever I say or have said needs breaking down or explaining. Either way, it’s in the previous comments already.

    I don’t think the IVF had anything to with Kensi’s anger towards Deeks, as it was not a sudden onset but an on-going pattern for years (as Robbie C pointed out). She was able to keep her cool around everybody else, did not even chew Fatima out when she dared to snap at her (!), but when it comes to Deeks, she throws everything AND the kitchen sink at him. There is something to be said about being able to let your guard down around those that make you feel the safest, but she crossed that bridge a long time ago. People will treat you the way you allow them to; Deeks needs to grow a spine and step up.

    Anybody remember the wedding fight in the garage after Deeks was fired? Though it was drama for the sake of drama, it gets me every time. Once more, wrong place to have that discussion. Calling off a wedding nearly 10 years in the making in a parking garage?? Kensi should have grabbed her bag and taken the day to talk things out with Deeks. Mexico certainly was not a sanctioned operation in any way. It was a custody case gone wrong and everybody went in rogue. She should have been Deeks wife-to-be but chose to be Blye, K. special agent again.

    Though the utter devastation on her face was clear, rather than saying ‘okay, let’s go home and talk this out’, she hit back by walking out. Either reject before being rejected or reject back even harder. That is not growth, that is regression she should no longer have in a form that severe after years of being at the receiving end of unconditional love from her husband-to-be.

    And who was it that apologized for doing literally nothing wrong (because his point was 100% valid) while lying half dead in a hospital bed? Yes, Deeks…..

    I also mentioned that those who were raised on love see things differently than those who were raised on survival and I gave (at least what I thought was) a pretty detailed explanation of what I meant, so I will stay away from re-hashing that one too, it’s in the previous comments already as well.

    The show: NCIS is most definitely not a comedy show. It is a crime procedural. It absolutely can have comic relief (such as Kirkin and Arkady) but you do not use a lead character as constant comic relief and in this case, a punching bag. I’m sorry, but I still find the whole Deeks in pink posing for Kirkin just awful. Maybe when he was 25, not at age 43 with the career he has had with NCIS.

    With Fatima being Muslim and Rountree African American, nobody will go near anything that might even come close to whatever crossing the line is these days. I see it on IG and FaceBook. If somebody says they do not like Fatima they are automatically called a racist. So they just go for Deeks. Only it stopped funny a long time ago.

    I agree with tessmmmax. I struggle a lot with the “ethical contradictions”. I know this is a fictional scripted tv show, however, there are limits to consider. You cannot simply pick locks and commit breaking and entering, you need a warrant. You cannot drag somebody into your car and lock them in the boathouse, you need an arrest warrant. You cannot deny somebody a phone call or legal representation, you are violating their Miranda rights. You cannot shoot first and ask questions later.

    NCISLA has the most deaths than any other crime show on television. They just shoot blindly and, well, who cares who is in the way and dies (rumor has it that this is why David James Elliot would not take over for Hetty, he had a real problem with the number of deaths and how they were carried out by the team).

    As a leader, Hetty should have taught Sam and Callen about boundaries and respect in the workplace as opposed to a different standard for everybody and inequality due to job title whilst the risk-for-one’s-life is still expected to be the same.

    (And btw, there is no Russia consulate in Los Angeles, not to mention that a loooooot of investigations seems to take place along the Venice boardwalk, lol. And other shows run normally despite Covid, so that excuse went out the window a long time ago).

    Compare NCISLA to Chicago PD and you will see the difference. The thing is: Viewers have become more sophisticated and alert to these things, so now they float to the surface.

    Pregnancy: Scott Gemmill recently stated in an interview that they will thread lightly with the pregnancy because he does not want to make Deeks and Kensi come across as irresponsible by bringing a child into the world with parents who are shot at all day. Meaning: We are putting a pin in it because it back-fired. As I have said over and over again: There is no way a pregnant Kensi will be allowed in the field. That means Deeks will be out there with…..who? Fatima…? And Kensi will do what….? Man the phones…? Show will be dead after 2 episodes. I have no idea what those particular fans on IG and FaceBook think will happen should she get pregnant and how that would completely decimate Densi.

    Though ECO is very capable of handling the one-liners (remember the Tom Ford line, when he responds to Kensi and Tony by saying ‘yes, but does he know how to undress a woman!”. Bam! Spot on! That, however, is very different from taking one emotional pounding after the other at his expense. It is degrading, humiliating, bullying, and destroys an inner self that clearly is already pretty damaged. It is not just show humor anymore. It is also repetitive. Always the same old thing. Was I that confusing when I made those comments before? I thought I was pretty clear too, but I guess not.

    I do not know if we will get a Deeks, M. episode. Like (again), I said before, it is pretty difficult to catch up on all the bread crumbs they have dropped over a period of 12 years and fit it into one episode. If they do, I am worried it is going to only make matters worse, it is impossible to cram it into 42 minutes (episode without commercials). I think the writers also clearly simply have forgotten how they wrote these characters in the early years.

    Which brings up the issue of trauma, something I have also mentioned numerous times, but I guess it never sank in. CPTSD, Continued Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I think this started before Kensi’s father died. No 15-year-old girl leaves home and lives on the streets of downtown Los Angeles unless bad things are happening at home. Deep down inside we all know what she had to do to survive as a young girl on the streets. She wasn’t a trained fighter at that time, she was a lost vulnerable scared young girl, no matter what her father had already taught her by that age. You can’t throw something like that out there and never build on it.

    Same with Deeks shooting his father at 11. That was it, no explanation, no follow-up, no flash-backs, nothing. Does anybody know anybody who is currently 11? Can you imagine that 11-year-old pointing a gun at their father and pulling the trigger? What would bring a child to shoot his own father? What are the repercussions to a child’s mind? And what happens to that child after that? No matter how charming Roberta (or Pamela Reed) is now, she should feel guilty. This is, indeed, on her shoulders. No back story there either (nor Kensi’s mother). Was she ever charged with child endangerment or neglect? He was most certainly taken from her, nobody had to write that story line. A child shoots his father, CPS will come for you in a nano-second.

    And what did Kensi’s mom do? Put her face on a milk carton? She was a minor. Nobody reported her missing? Nobody came knocking on her door when her daughter vanished from school? Kensi was never picked up for solicitation charges? SMH about all of the above.

    I started this whole discussion to point out that if Deeks would treat Kensi they way she has been treating him every organization in the country would be up in arms with protests about abuse. Watch some of the scenes and image Deeks playing Kensi’s part and vice versa. What if Deeks would have walked up to Kensi and punched her square in the face full fisted and said “you would have taken the shot 24 hours ago”. There is no way.

    Though she does punch his less, the emotional poundings have not let up and, I’m sorry, that stuff eats away at you internally no matter how hard you try to hide it.

    I have dealt with CPTSD my whole life and many times I tell myself that my healing comes from helping the people I love even if they do not love me back the way I wish they would. That theory could be applied to how Deeks takes care of, loves, and always forgives Kensi for everything she throws at him. However, at the of the day, it is only superficial healing, a temporary distraction. Strong people need somebody to help them heal too. They hide behind smiles and jokes and somehow people jump on that band wagon because it is so much easier than to say “come sit with me for a bit and tell me how you’re really doing”. Has anyone ever done that for Deeks? Not even Granger. Not to that extent.

    I really never got why Kensi wanted Granger to walk her down the aisle and why, of all things, that was the big emotional issue for her. He was a friend of her father’s and she didn’t really know him very well. As far as I can remember, there were no actual deep ‘bonding’ scenes between her and Granger (or Granger and Deeks).

    The possibility of Deeks having a ‘father figure’ at one point in his life has been mentioned here, but….when? We have seen no flashbacks or references or mentions. He was with the LAPD for a very short time and was not treated very well. I doubt he developed any significant trusting relationship with anyone, even Bates.

    Pre-production has started and filming will start July 15. If I would guess? They will run with Kessler, Kirkin’s criminal empire, Anna, and more Russia. Fatima and Rountree have signed their contracts, so that means a lot of fast-forwarding for me. It just feels that everybody has said “why bother anymore”.

    Does anybody remember Better Angels? One of the best episodes crime story wise. Finally one not about Russia or wired dolphins (!), but about something that is a horrific reality for millions of people. Yet no mention of anything related to the Middle East, China, North Korea, or crimes that happen within our own Navy, such as assaults against women by men in their own team. It appears the writing team has lost the interest and effort to tackle anything heavy and just keeps going for the easiest jugular: A weak Russia storyline with Deeks as comic relief.

    Rumors have been floating around that ECO has asked for less screen time so he could focus more on his production company (Cloud Nine productions), however, I should emphasize that have seen nothing that has officially confirmed this.

    Someone asked if any of the actors, writers or producers read what is being written here. Great question but I doubt it. I think of all people ECO seems to be the most inter-active with his fans and this platform is in his honor, after all. If he does read it, he never commented and, going by his IG, he is not shy about commenting, lol.

    Well, that was my rant for the day, haha! Hope I didn’t come across crankier than Callen, lol!! Have a great day everyone!

    Like

    • There are a lot of things this show should deal with, but when you have a big cast and 42 minutes per episode, there’s really only so much you can do.

      Honestly, the whole Densi baby woes thing should just be dropped completely. The main thing that has bothered me throughout this whole issue this: They’re going through so many other issues! Money problems, Kessler being on the loose, and they think they’re ready to have a baby NOW?! They should deal with these issues first and foremost before rushing into the whole baby making thing!! Plus, it seems really obvious it’s not going to advance any further if they’re going to keep debating on whether or not they should stay at NCIS if they have a kid. I get that a lot of shippers on Tumblr, Twitter and Facebook and IG want to see them have a kid, but should it really be like this?

      As many issues as this show appears to have about, a lot of things. I prefer to just focus on what I like about this show and try not to obsess about the negative things. (my opinion on this show has been negative enough these past few years because of all the unanswered Hetty questions from the past 3 Seasons.)

      The humor doesn’t really bug me. I’m a humor loving person who’s watched a lot of comedies over the years, and sometimes, I just need something silly to laugh at. Even if it’s just a cringy joke or someone looking downright ridiculous.

      I doubt any one on the BTS crew read our comments. (even though I like to imagine them reading all of my ideas for Hetty)

      I thought Kensi wanting Granger to walk her down the aisle was really sweet.

      I don’t listen to all those dumb rumors about Dani and ECO wanting less screen time.

      My ultimate dream for the Season premeire is a 1 or 2 hour Hetty centric episode on her mission from last Season. There’s certainly enough material for it! Plus it’d be a great way to start the Season off with a bang. (hey, a gal can dream!)

      Yes, Dani confirmed that July 15 will be the filming start date for Season 13.

      In the time period before filming starts, I like to think things will be better when the Season starts. I’m a positive person that way.

      Like

      • Humor is best when it’s spread around. That happened in the early days, but has narrowed far too much to mocking only one character. At that point it stops being funny. At least for me.

        As for Hetty….I almost think it’s too late at this point. She used to be one of my favorite characters, too, but the writing for her has gotten so bad I don’t think they can come back from that.

        Like

        • Hetty’s always been my favorite since I started watching this show back in Season 6. I just hope Linda is feeling good enough to stick around most of Season 13 so the writers can start answering questions related to the last 3 Seasons. (I’m a positive thinker, and I’m tired of not trusting the writers with certain things. Been like that since Season 11 with me, and I just want to start thinking of this show in a positive light again instead of looking at spoilers and thinking ‘oh great, another bad episode to get though.’)

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          • If the producers or show runners don’t want the questions answered, the writers won’t do it. That’s just how it goes, sadly. When I was talking about the Miami Vice draft scripts below, it was always interesting to see how much good material some of the writers brought forward that never made its way on screen. In the Vice community, though, it’s easier to blame the writers than admit Michael Mann cared mostly about visuals with that show.

            Looking back with Hetty, though, I found her a much more interesting (and likable) character prior to about season seven or eight. Somewhere in there the tone of her character changed, and it’s been accelerating ever since.

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        • Definitely stopped being fun when it turned into mocking, degrading, and downright bullying just Deeks…..

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      • Very true. They have been throwing way to many things around to now also add in the baby issue (which cannot have a good outcome unless it is the series finale).

        I think there have been so many loose ends for all the characters, it is going to be really difficult to tie them all up. A gal can only dream indeed, lol!

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    • Frankly, I think Chicago PD is a horrible show. Why would anyone in their right mind trust Hank Voigt for a second (let alone follow him through a door, to use LE-type lingo)? But his duplicity does have a strong echo in the way they’ve been writing Hetty for the last six seasons or so. She was once a compelling and interesting character (something I can’t say for Hank Voigt…who is a Blue Light Special version of Vic Mackey in far too many ways), but now she’s not. That’s not a reflection on Linda Hunt, who is a fantastic actor, but rather a production team that seems to have in some sense lost its way.

      Did Granger and Deeks have deep bonding moments? By the context of other shows (especially Five-0 and Blue Bloods), no. But in NCIS LA terms they certainly did. Granger is the only who who expressed concern for Deeks during Kensi’s coma and rehab, and he trusted his skills enough to send him on a solo operation at least once. Small things in terms of other shows, but for this one those are major moments. Like you, though, I didn’t see the point in the whole Kensi thing about Granger walking her down the aisle. Considering she spends almost every waking moment with the team trying to emulate Callen and Sam, having them walk her down the aisle made the most sense.

      Another digression: I’ve done quite a bit of fan fiction writing for Miami Vice…a show with erratic character backgrounds not unlike those we see here. I honestly don’t think Kensi spent any time on the street….I think that was a “one off” in a script (I’ve seen many of those in Vice, but unfortunately we don’t have ready access to scripts for NCIS LA like there is for Vice…you can learn quite a bit from draft scripts about characters). If she was on the streets, she wouldn’t have had the grades to get into Cornell…let alone pass a Top Secret clearance check. Also, the military has very developed systems for dealing with dependents in the aftermath of a loss. Her father would have designated a guardian (something I’m touching on in the Ochoa Report covering Kensi), and she would have had other Marine Corps support mechanisms kick in as well. Her mother wouldn’t have automatically been involved, and if anything may have been cut out by the terms of the divorce or other provisions her father would have made.

      As far as Deeks…I don’t think his role model/mentor had any real connection with LAPD, and if they did it wouldn’t be Bates. If anything it might have been one of the cops who responded to the shooting call, or perhaps a CPS case worker. Maybe a relative, but we never have a sense of Deeks having any family aside from Roberta.

      NCIS LA was never intended to deal with law enforcement issues. The whole fictional OSP framework was intended to give it a wider field of play (not unlike Miami Vice’s OCB…yet another similarity between the shows). The things you’re looking for, M, would have been more at home on NCIS NO (and some of them were…that show tended to touch more on serious issues of the kind you mention). That doesn’t men they’re not important, but that NCIS LA was never really intended to reach into that world. And if they did, the only character who would be even remotely equipped to deal with it is…(surprise) Deeks. Can you image Sam responding to a domestic that involved a SEAL?

      Anyhow, that’s my little ramble for the day.

      Like

      • I actually never used to watch CPD, lol. I pandemic-binged and was hooked. Not a fan of the first 4 seasons because I found Sophia Bush extremely annoying. I am a big Upstead fan and they did get shipped this season, hooray!

        Unfortunately, I do not know who Vic Mackey is. However, yes, I would trust Hank Voight over – for instance — Sam and Callen, who only seem to have their own self interest at heart and are certainly not front and center when Deeks need support (they had no problem leaving him in the desert while they raced away on their dirt bikes for instance, what happened to ‘leave no man behind?’).

        What Hank Voight and the CPD deal with on a daily basis is unfathomable. This is real life in one of the worst crime cities in this country. No matter how many you knock down, a thousand more are ready to come at you.

        Yes, he goes off the books, what other choice does he have? But they do use search warrants, arrest warrants, body cams, Miranda rights, right to a lawyer, and don’t blindly shoot rounds and rounds of bullets before asking questions.

        The storylines are very close to what actual life as a cop in a city like Chicago really is. Let’s look at the writing and the acting in comparison. Look at the material and situations Marina Squerciati alone has been given in comparison to DR. Do I think DR can handle that kind of deep acting? 1000% yes! It just is not given to her.

        I agree that Linda Hunt is a formidable actor. She is the victim of a lost (lazy…?) production/writing team, as are the other actors.

        You make some really great points about Kensi and her time on the street. However, it was mentioned quite a few times, so I think it did happen. That is heavy duty stuff that either needs to be followed through or should have never been out there in the first place. I have always had my doubts about Cornell as well. The time line does not add up for one, nor does her other schooling and credits. She would still have passed a top secret clearance check, after all she was 15-16 at the time, but there would have been red flags, and definitely heavy duty psyche evals, and it would have come up during her sessions with Nate after Afghanistan (CPTSD).

        The Marine Corps, apart from pension, gratuity, etc. does not have much in place when it comes for the actual care of left behind spouses or minor children. You are left to your own devices. In fact, in most cases, they try their utmost best to not give a PTSD diagnoses so they will not have to pay out what is owed. Unless Kensi’s father put all that in place while he was still alive, there would have been nothing for her or her mother. I have seen that happen IRL too many times. There really is no automatic support system. Also, her mother would, as her direct next of kin, no matter what provisions her father may have made, absolutely would be the first in line for her full-time custody and care. Parental rights take precedence over anything else and she never gave up her parental rights.

        You are right in that NCISLA was never intended to be deal with law enforcement issues, but they are a Naval Crime Investigation Unit with a Special Ops department and that most definitely could have been taken more seriously as opposed to the repetitive easy ways out we have seen in the past few seasons. Over the past few years, they seemed to have veered and have gone the “comedy” route, if you can even call it that.

        As you have seen in my previous comments, I cannot find the comedy in the relentless emotional pounding solely directed at one person.

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        • Vic Mackey was the main character in The Shield…the show that Chicago PD is a poor copy of in many, many ways. The Shield was based in part on the CRASH unit that was at the center of the Ramparts scandal with the LAPD some years back, and is well worth watching. The writing and acting are superior, and the plots are quite real.

          As for your Kensi points…we have no idea if her mother surrendered her parental rights or not. Just like most things related to character background on this show. That was the main reason for my Miami Vice comparison…they did the same thing there. The only saving grace (if you can call it that) is that Vice ran for about half the time NCIS LA has been on the air, so the errors and omissions didn’t have as much time to compound.

          To be honest, I think NCIS LA lost its way after the death of Miguel and has not managed to find its soul since then. They fell back on lazy tropes and patterns after that, saddling us with one awful character after another and losing the humanity that made the show strong early on.

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          • If you ask me, Season 10 is when this show started going down hill. Season 9 was not as bad as I originally thought, but then ‘you know who’ got involved in that accident a week before Season 10 was supposed to start filming.
            Things just aren’t the same when you’re covering for an injured cast member for a long period of time. (especially if that cast member is the glue that holds this show together!!)

            If anyone is interested in my fic writing, my name on FF.Net and A03 is OPS Manager. I’ve written a lot of LA fics on there.

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            • I agree. I don’t think season 9 was as bad at all. I actually liked Mosely (loved and still miss Hidoko, she would have been great instead of Fatima). With the exception of her inexplicable dislike for Deeks, she kept the team in check. Everybody blames her for Mexico, but as far as I can remember, it was Callen initially and subsequently the rest of the team that voluntarily followed. She fully intended to go at it alone. She never ordered anybody to go down there.

              They let way too many people run through to cover for Hetty, they should have just found one strong character and kept her/him in place until she returned.

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          • I never watched The Shield. I couldn’t get into it. I thought the plot was poor, and the cast and acting left much to be desired, as opposed to Chicago PD. But hey, that’s okay! It’s okay to disagree and have different likes or we’d all be watching the same show over and over again, lol!

            NCISLA indeed has saddled us with very poor character choices (especially after Hetty had to recover from her car accident). A lot of times ECO and DR were allowed to ad-lib scenes that actually aired and it was 100% obvious they were doing so.

            A waste of incredibly talented actors. In my opinion, ECO, DR and Linda Hunt are capable of true in-depth storylines, both character and plot-wise, but the writers and showrunners, especially in ECO and DR’s case, have given them little to showcase that talent and have allowed them to fall into a “comfortable pattern” of just “being pals”. The depth of their aching love for each other is gone.

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    • Please keep commenting M. Just a few more weeks, okay months, and we’ll have a new season and new things to complain about, sorry comment on. Can we keep going till then? I know it’s a bit of a carousel going round and round. Now and again though, a new high horse will come round for us to get on. I am marshalling my thoughts for another post, I have a feeling you, and everyone else will disagree. Just trying to stir the pot.

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      • Aaaawww, thank you, Patricia!! Don’t curb your posts on me having a bad day! Everyone has one of those every now and then. We’re all trying to hang in at this point, lol!

        Like

  27. I knew I should have taken notes reading all these comments, good points all round. Now what is it I was going to say?

    About Sam, I think he’s a part-time family man. Much of the time he has put his family second, a choice I guess a lot of military people have to make. Not sure why, but I always had the feeling Aiden was a bit of an accident while Kam was planned. Not that it matters. He does care about his family, in his way. I thought Kam was accepted to a military college around the time her mother was killed. Did he discuss selling the family home with his children? I’d like to think so, but probably not. I do think Sam is a character without a great deal of depth. Highly skilled, a hero, multi-lingual, brave, judgemental. He’s suppose to have a big heart, not sure about that. I don’t dislike him particularly, but I don’t feel interested enough to see what is under the super hero veneer.

    The question of humour is a tricky one, we all have different tolerances of that too. Absolutely it is not a comedy show, but comedy has always played a part. I think we can all agree poking fun at Deeks, constantly humiliating him has never been funny. Like Maria, I too like some humour. In the right place it lightens the darkness. Much missed in this department is Granger. I thought his witty one-liners delivered with that deadpan face were very funny, very easy to miss. Okay so that’s just me then.

    At this point I wish I had one of those tactical vests, I can feel disagreement coming on. Deep breath. Some people have a thorough, in-depth knowledge of military matters, federal law and all kinds of background stuff. I can only bow to their insight and intelligence. Sometimes I think that may be a two edged sword. These shows are for entertainment, they are not documentaries. You may have a piece of fine art, but if you can see the brushstrokes you will miss the picture. Admittedly they should keep as near to the truth as possible. They are not reality but they need to be realistic. Sometimes you have to just sit back and enjoy the show. The question of Kensi’s time ‘on the streets’ is one of the things that beggar belief, M has a good point. It has been alluded to a few times, so I guess it happened. I understand she was living with her father when he was killed. My rationale is that it was a precocious, smart, headstrong Kensi out there. She realised she had made a huge mistake and eventually asked for help. I really don’t know, but inside knowledge can distract from your enjoyment of the show. Especially over scenes we haven’t seen, stories we haven’t been told. Some of these things you just have to let go.

    Moving on to the possible pregnancy. I wish they hadn’t gone down that road, it’s all got too complicated. Now they’re saying their jobs are too dangerous for them to have children, or whatever. I think they had to address the baby issue after the ‘Mexico argument’, but I would rather they had left it at Kensi deciding she wanted a baby with Deeks in ‘Mother’.

    Have to agree with Maria, it is better to focus on the positives of the show, it is my favourite show, but you might not think so from my ramblings.

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    • Yeah, this is my favorite show as well. But if anyone has looked at my post episode thoughts on my Tumblr blog and my thoughts on a lot of spoilers these past 2 Seasons, well…. Yeah, you wouldn’t really know it either.

      Past few Seasons, my positives have only showed up once every few episodes. ;(

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    • The time line with Kam just does not add up. She was 8-10 in season 6 (Humbug – ice skating rink) so must have been 10-12 in season 8 when Michelle passed. How can she be old enough for military college a mere 4 years later?

      I think Sam is highly skilled in many things but that does not give you emotional depth, which I think he lacks. How does he leave his children when their mother dies? Especially a little girl who lived right there?

      I do like humor but humor at the cost of someone’s dignity is not humor anymore and IMO they crossed that line with Deeks a long time ago. Especially now that I see them giving Fatima and Rountree respect they never gave Deeks. On top of that, Kensi’s behavior towards him in season 12 was…well…I have lost the words to describe it at this point.

      I actually agree in that these shows are entertainment and not documentaries, however, yes, they need to stay close(r) to reality because you run the risk of them becoming laughable.

      We do not know if Kensi lived with her father before he died or if she was in a shared custody situation. As with Deeks’ background – and even Callen – they throw out these heavy-duty tidbits without ever explaining them, thinking viewers will simply accept, forget, and move on. Eventually though, these things come back to haunt the storylines, as they now find out.

      I stand by my pregnancy opinion. Like you (and others), I also wish they had not gone down that road.

      Though it is absolutely better to focus on the positives of the show, this past season there have not been many positives for me (and apparently many others). There have not been many positives since season 9 (wedding excluded).

      I makes me fear for season 13…….

      Like

      • So many of the timelines in NCIS:LA have baffled me I feel quite comforted you feel the same way. In fact there is a lot I don’t understand, I just pretend I do. I don’t think they crossed the line with Deeks, humour wise, they were always on the wrong side of it. Like a lot of people I just want to see him treated with respect. I watched ‘Identity’ Friday night, well some of it. The first episode of Season 1, I’d forgotten how shabbily they treated Nate. I liked Nate. As a group they are not nice people.

        I get your point on Sam and the children. I think I wouldn’t be so annoyed if he wasn’t so quick to judge other parents. What right does he have to say ‘she’s a good mom’? He’s said that more than once.

        There are so many backstories they haven’t told us and so much that doesn’t add up. I think it’s best to go with the flow and let them tell us when they’re ready, or not. It’s their problem, better if they get it right so the show’s not cancelled. In Season 4 did they know Donald Blye’s wedding ring was in the box? In Season 5 or was it 6, did they know Joelle was a CIA agent? I’m not sure how far ahead they plan. I’m still looking forward to watching Season 12, many of Karen’s reviews were very positive. Gotta stay positive.

        Now, what else can we talk about?

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        • You haven not watched season 12 yet? Which season are you currently on?

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          • Tonight I will watch the Season 7 finale, really looking forward to tomorrow. Over here Seasons 1-3 are repeated on a loop, but unusually they did show Season 4 last time. I cherry pick what episodes I watch. I could sign up to Sky and watch the current season, but I am too mean to do that. Also they air here a few weeks after they air in America. Although I think the finale aired the same night, so technically it aired here first. I freely admit I comment on episodes I haven’t actually watched, I see so many clips it feels like I have watched the show. I know there are other options to watch the show, streaming or whatever. It just works for me to wait till the DVDs come out, I think Season 12 is due out in August so I’ll probably get it in October. I will actually walk to the shop to buy it. Quirky or what? Come October, hopefully I will have forgotten what people have said about Season 12. I have watched Season 11, but only once.

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            • Sorry, that was a bit confusing. I’m currently re-watching all my DVDs, I’ll be starting Season 8 tomorrow night. Ideally I should get Season 11 re-watched just before I get Season 12. By then of course, Season 13 will have started.

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            • Oh no worries, I love your comments! Since towards the end of season 9, I have fast-forwarded so many times, I feel I didn’t see the entire episodes either, lol! I think you’ll be shocked by season 12 though…..might want to invest in some migraine medication in advance, lol!!

              Like

              • Yeah, some scenes you rewind and watch again, some you just fast forward. Then at the end you can’t remember what it was all about. There’s a pharmacy near the DVD shop, I’ll see what they’ve got, thanks for the warning. I’m happy you like my comments, they don’t always make sense. Yours are so full of passion, I always look forward to them.

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                • Your comments always make sense to me! That’s so funny: I do exactly the same thing! Keep my favorites in my DVR for re-watching or go to YouTube clips, but a lot of times (especially the last 3 seasons), I fast forward and don’t even know what the story was about (also because the stories haven’t made sense, were repetitive and boring). You’ll go through all of season 12 in 2 hours, lol!

                  Like

  28. Here’s a fun discussion point:

    What are your favorite episodes of Season 6? Season 6 is when I started watching this show live, and it’s also 1 of my favorite Seasons of this show.

    Here’s my Top 15 episodes of Season 6 (this is kind of how my personal Episode Rankings thing works on my blog):

    #1, Praesidium
    #2, The 3rd Choir
    #3, Inelegant Heart (That whole 3 episode arc is 1 of my favorite arcs on this show. And coincedentally, it’s how I started to love Hetty!)
    #4, Humbug (1 of my favorite Christmas episodes!)
    #5, Chernoff K (A very good Season finale)
    #6, Deep trouble Part 1 (Solid Season premeire)
    #7, Rage (1 of my favorite Hetty/Callen moments Ever!!)
    #8, SEAL Hunter
    #9, Beacon
    #10, Kolcheck A
    #11, In the Line of Duty
    #12, Fighting Shadows
    #13, Black Budget
    #14, Expiration Date
    #15, Forest for the Trees

    Like

  29. Oh Maria, it seemed such an easy question. For the record I didn’t spend all day watching Season 6 in it’s entirety. The first six were easy but it got more and more difficult. There wasn’t a bad one was there?
    So here goes;

    #1 Praesidium (if only for the conversation after Kensi’s interview)
    #2 Expiration date (I liked Thapa)
    #3 Spiral (just because it was different)
    #4 Black Wind (Granger played a blinder)
    #5 Humbug (nice Christmas episode)
    #6 Fighting Shadows (precursor to Internal Affairs)
    #7 Field of Fire
    #8 Beacon
    #9 Rage
    #10 SEAL Hunter
    #11 Grey Man
    #12 Black Budget
    #13 A Kolcheck
    #14 Chernoff K
    #15 Inelegant Heart

    If I did this again tomorrow, I think it would be completely different. Definitely fun, Thank you

    Like

    • Season 6 was great! Maybe 1 or 2 boring episodes, but it was 1 of the best Seasons of this show (IMO)!
      Thank you.

      Like

      • If I had a favourite it would probably be Season 8, I think I got caught up in the whole rehabilitation thing, but it did taper off a bit. Season 6 was strong throughout, very few ‘iffy’ episodes and the storylines seemed to ‘flow’. Later seasons we’ve had a few really good episodes amongst more ‘iffy’ ones.

        Like

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